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King of Charred Bones and Spoiled Meat


Phylum of Alexandria

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Yes, I’m misquoting Aerys in my title. Read on.

I was re-reading Dany’s chapter in the House of the Undying, trying to learn more about the nature of the magic behind the Shade of the Evening Trees.

Here are some descriptors. What’s the theme that emerges here?

  • Black tiles covered the palace roof, many fallen or broken; the mortar between the stones was dry and crumbling. She understood now why Xaro Xhoan Daxos called it the Palace of Dust.”
  • “Dany raised the glass to her lips. The first sip tasted like ink and spoiled meat, foul, but when she swallowed it seemed to come to life within her.”
  • “A long stone table filled this room. Above it floated a human heart, swollen and blue with corruption, yet still alive.”

Two themes, both related. There’s dust, crumbling, fallen, broken. And then there’s spoiled and corrupt. Together, they contribute to the state of being nearly dead, but still alive.

Also, does “blue with corruption” have any literary or real-world significance to it? Because if not, it’s basically GRRM telling us that the blue, rotten-tasting leaves of the Shade trees have been corrupted.

Why do I care about this stuff? I think this has more general relevance for the deeper magical plot of ASOIAF.

Crowfood’s Daughter has already made the case that the oily black stone that the Bloodstone Emperor worshipped, the stone used for the Seastone Chair, the cursed Lovecraftian stuff that has made Asshai and Yeen nigh uninhabitable, is actually petrified Shade tree. Here’s the video if you haven’t seen it:

Although a tree petrifying implies that the tree is dead, I think the above text from the House of the Undying points to a different answer: the Shade Trees have been corrupted; they are close to death, but still alive.

And if their blue colored-leaves are an indication of their corruption, then they are pretty much all corrupted. Crowfood’s Daughter points us to the world map, to look at Ulthos, right near the Shadowlands. It looks like a giant forest of indigo-violet trees.

The Bloodstone Emperor story indicates that the black stone came from the sky, and I think that’s broadly right, but perhaps it’s a bit jumbled.

Maybe there were giant stones that came from the shattered moon, which ushered in the Long Night, and the impact brought this particular network of magical trees close to death. And from that impact, the Shade trees took on their blue colored leaves, and their black, greasy stone trunks. Which then were used for magical properties, but which subsequently proved toxic and cursed. It's not as catchy as "Bloodstone Emperor," but I like the "King of Charred Bones and Spoiled Meat." :D

...Wait, what magical properties, you ask?

Well, it’s not just the black stone that was said to drink light. Certain magical swords have been described that way, including the Grey King’s black magical swords, and Jaime’s reforged Valyrian steel blade Oathkeeper. I think the corrupted Shade root could be an essential ingredient there.

And maybe other purposes. You know, just like with the tree itself: what is dead does not die, but makes us harder and stronger.

 

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52 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

So the Shade of the Evening Trees are Weirwoods corrupted by the Black Stone?

I would guess that "the black stone" is really corrupted weirwood, or some relative of weirwood. Maybe it was scorched by the meteor impact. I'm guessing it wasn't a substance on the impacting stone itself, because the significance of the literary ties seem to be the Shade tree itself. 

And it's one more bit of evidence that the magic of Planetos goes back to a common source, albeit with unique bloodlines.

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If I remember correctly, Crowfood's Daughter has argued that Weirwood and Ironwood trees are related, and implies that Shade of the Evening trees are some sort of corrupted Ironwood trees. I haven't watched that video in a while, so I might have things confused, but I find it an interesting addition to your theory anyway.

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3 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

If I remember correctly, Crowfood's Daughter has argued that Weirwood and Ironwood trees are related, and implies that Shade of the Evening trees are some sort of corrupted Ironwood trees. I haven't watched that video in a while, so I might have things confused, but I find it an interesting addition to your theory anyway.

I'd have to go back and check; I think she gets close to saying this stuff, but doesn't quite. It could very well be that she reached the same conclusion but I didn't quite catch it, or she doesn't quite state it.

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16 hours ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Although a tree petrifying implies that the tree is dead, I think the above text from the House of the Undying points to a different answer: the Shade Trees have been corrupted; they are close to death, but still alive.

My conclusion after initially reading that chaper was that the black trees must have been corrupted and the taste of spoiled meat certainly supports that. As to how the corruption came about, that's still a mystery to me. I'm not sure if the black stone was involved and even less sure that the breaking of a moon and subsequent raining down of corrupted meteors occurred at all. I think the author has given us at least two examples of the creation of "corruption" within the narrative, namely the effects of the clash of fire and water magic as demonstrated by the destruction of the Rhoynar and current state of Chroyane, and the state of Old Valyria after the Doom. 

The Bloodstone Emperor's name, Bloodstone, could indicate the nature of the black stone he worshipped. That it fell from the sky is probably the basis for the foundation of the "Church of Starry Wisdom." In short, a stone that fell down from the realm of the stars, bringing "wisdom" or knowledge to its worshippers. So perhaps this stone is a stone of wisdom, something akin to the Philosopher's Stone. The BSE was certainly in possession of occult knowledge, said even to have practiced necromancy. Perhaps blood sacrifices were required to access the stone's knowledge, hence Bloodstone Emperor. 

 

16 hours ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Crowfood’s Daughter has already made the case that the oily black stone that the Bloodstone Emperor worshipped, the stone used for the Seastone Chair, the cursed Lovecraftian stuff that has made Asshai and Yeen nigh uninhabitable, is actually petrified Shade tree.

I think Crowfood's daughter has the right of it with her theory on oily black stone actually being petrified Shade of the Evening trees, though my premise would be that Asshai and other artifacts were made from the original healthy trees before they were corrupted. 

A good candidate for the original trees is Cedarwood. Cedars used to be plentiful in Essos, at least in the southern part. The Green Grace mentions the destruction of all cedars growing around Meereen during wars between the Ghiscari and Valyrians. Particularly significant is the Isle of Cedars, visited by Victarion on his journey to Slaver's Bay. Significant also because Victarion is Ironborn and thus linked to the Seastone Chair, also of oily black stone. Victarion is quite perplexed upon reaching the Isle of Cedars only to discover there are no cedars:

 

Quote

The Isle of Cedars. Where were these cedars? Drowned four hundred years ago, it seemed. Victarion had gone ashore a dozen times, hunting fresh meat, and had yet to see a cedar.

…….

He did not like this Isle of Cedars either. The hunting might be good, but the forests were too green and still, full of twisted trees and queer bright flowers like none his men had ever seen before, and there were horrors lurking amongst the broken palaces and shattered statues of drowned Velos …

We also learn that the palaces on the Isle were once built of cedarwood and pink marble. The Isle of Cedars is close to Old Valyria and was destroyed along with it, but it could also serve as a parallel to what happened to the Asshai region thousands of years previously.

The only place where a few live cedars still grow are Volantis, as described by Tyrion. 

Cedarwood is interesting because it has properties similar to weirwood. True cedars are very long lived and the wood is a sought after building material because of its insect and worm-repelling properties. True cedar oil is a product of cedar trees and possesses insect repelling and antifungal properties. In ancient times, this oil was used by the Egyptians in the embalming process. Interestingly, they injected cedar oil into the organs of the dead specifically to dissolve the tissue - that kind of reminds me of the "spoiled meat" taste of shade of the evening.

There is a species of cedar called Ashe cedar (juniperus ashei). Now, this may be a coincidental name similarity to Asshai but perhaps not. This particular species is also considered to be invasive.
Lastly, "sacred" is an anagram of "cedars," another possible hint at the role of the cedartree on Essos in ancient times. 

 

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3 hours ago, Evolett said:

My conclusion after initially reading that chaper was that the black trees must have been corrupted and the taste of spoiled meat certainly supports that. As to how the corruption came about, that's still a mystery to me. I'm not sure if the black stone was involved and even less sure that the breaking of a moon and subsequent raining down of corrupted meteors occurred at all. I think the author has given us at least two examples of the creation of "corruption" within the narrative, namely the effects of the clash of fire and water magic as demonstrated by the destruction of the Rhoynar and current state of Chroyane, and the state of Old Valyria after the Doom. 

It's certainly not a hidden detail that the Undying are corrupted and nearing death, and the Shade tree couples with that. What I think tends not to be spelled out is that this is basically a Weirwood relative that has been corrupted and nearing death. 

Stuff about "brother killing brother" and the Grey King setting an evil tree ablaze, could very well be talking about this event, "brother" in that case referring to the trees themselves. (I hate that I have to call them trees, because I don't think they're trees at all, but I have no better name).

As for the moon, I do find the basics of LmL's moon meteor theory to be convincing. It has plausible textual support, and would go some way in explaining the mechanics of the Long Night. I think a lot of the focus on the BSE tends to obscure the mechanics angle that I'm interested in. Blood sacrifice almost certainly was a part of it, but I think that GRRM as a writer is interested in what enables magic in his otherwise realistic human world.  I think that Weirwoods were involved in pulling those astral bodies into a collision, via psionic power (still magic in its own way, but it's a "source" of supernaturalism that can potentially be dealt with in-story). Crowfood's Daughter hasn't quite gone there with Weirwoods Caused the Long Night, but she's fairly close. I think she and I probably agree on a lot, but I can't say for sure on the points that she doesn't explicitly bring up.

3 hours ago, Evolett said:

I think Crowfood's daughter has the right of it with her theory on oily black stone actually being petrified Shade of the Evening trees, though my premise would be that Asshai and other artifacts were made from the original healthy trees before they were corrupted. 

I agree. I think maybe my post above wan't so clear. I don't think it was the meteor itself that was oily and black. I can't totally rule that out, but I feel like the emphasis seems to be on the Shade trees themselves, and their corrupt state. So I would say that the "oily black stone" we encounter in the story is corrupted and petrified Weir-brother. 

I mentioned the possible use of the oily stone for magical properties, but we know that Weirwood has magical properties uncorrupted, so it's just as likely (perhaps more) that Asshai was built from the flesh of healthy trees.

3 hours ago, Evolett said:

A good candidate for the original trees is Cedarwood. Cedars used to be plentiful in Essos, at least in the southern part. The Green Grace mentions the destruction of all cedars growing around Meereen during wars between the Ghiscari and Valyrians. Particularly significant is the Isle of Cedars, visited by Victarion on his journey to Slaver's Bay. Significant also because Victarion is Ironborn and thus linked to the Seastone Chair, also of oily black stone. Victarion is quite perplexed upon reaching the Isle of Cedars only to discover there are no cedars:

Certainly possible. As I mentioned, I personally don't think these things are actually trees, I just think they resemble them from a certain perspective. But as Crowfood's Daughter argues, it may well be that people in Westeros simply mistake them for other more typical trees, like Ironwood or Ebony or Cedar. Or maybe these trees never reached Westeros in their living state. I dunno. I think it's a fair guess (but still a guess) to say that they were black even before they were corrupted. What the leaves looked like before they turned blue is another matter entirely. If they were green, then it would be quite easy to confuse them with other dark trees, as long as one did not notice the lack of change across the seasons. But red or some other color would definitely stick out.

I guess we'll all find out in 100 years or so, when GRRM publishes his book!

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9 hours ago, Evolett said:

The Bloodstone Emperor's name, Bloodstone, could indicate the nature of the black stone he worshipped. That it fell from the sky is probably the basis for the foundation of the "Church of Starry Wisdom." In short, a stone that fell down from the realm of the stars, bringing "wisdom" or knowledge to its worshippers. So perhaps this stone is a stone of wisdom, something akin to the Philosopher's Stone. The BSE was certainly in possession of occult knowledge, said even to have practiced necromancy. Perhaps blood sacrifices were required to access the stone's knowledge, hence Bloodstone Emperor. 

For anyone who may not know, bloodstone is an actual type of stone here on real-life Earth.  It's typically dark green with spots or streaks of red; hence the name.

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9 minutes ago, Aebram said:

For anyone who may not know, bloodstone is an actual type of stone here on real-life Earth.  It's typically dark green with spots or streaks of red; hence the name.

I'm well aware of the mineral bloodstone, its colouring and potential association with "green blood." Also of its other name, heliotrope, meaning sun-turning and what that implies regarding the BSE as the one who ushered in the Long Night. I do like to think out of the box and to look for further meanings that might be implied by the text, hence my thoughts on Bloodstone in connection with the black stone that fell from the sky in my previous post :)

 

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GRRM loves his wordplay, and for sure, when we encounter the Shade Trees and the Undying in ACOK, the moral and institutional aspect of corruption is what really comes to the fore--the perfect culmination of the larger theme of Dany's time in Qarth: these are mere temptations that promise an easy way out for Dany. The cheap fantasy novel cliches are but shadows and dusty shells in GRRM's world, and so his hero must break out from the fantasy and actively work to change things for the better.

Still, if we are simply talking about a biological organism, the Shade tree's corruption is simply a state of putrefaction, of rot or infection. It seems dead, yet remains alive. It directly resembles the Undying themselves (which curiously resemble corpse-like Greenseers like Bloodraven).

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