Football: Kane is coming home

[Spockydog]

9 hours ago, ants said:

 I've got to say I find this idea perplexing/baffling. The idea that there isn't luck is just so obviously incorrect, it's like not believing in gravity. 

Do you believe in God?

Because there is literally no point debating whether or not luck exists with anyone who still believes in mystical beings in the sky.

If, however, you don't believe in God, what are you saying? That luck is some hitherto undiscovered fundamental force of the cosmos?

 

 

[Spockydog]

9 hours ago, Lord of Oop North said:

But this isn't a game of chance, is it? We don't need to hope for a last card. This is a sport, your success is determined by your skills being greater than that of your opponent.

Exactly.

If I hear another so-called football expert describing a World Cup penalty shoot out as a lottery, I'm gonna fucking scream.

Penalties are a test of nerve, skill, and technique. There is nothing oogy-boogy about it.

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Spockydog

[polishgenius]

9 hours ago, Lord of Oop North said:

This goal was great. Messi is having a terrific World Cup, and it feels like he is just willing them to this Final.

This feels like a weird sentiment to read from someone who just spent several posts passionately arguing that the concept of luck is just too supernatural.

 

 

 

 

On the 1,000 games point- it's not surprising that Messi had more goals there, don't forget Ronaldo didn't convert to a goalscoring forward till a few years in at United.

[Lord of Oop North]

18 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

This feels like a weird sentiment to read from someone who just spent several posts passionately arguing that the concept of luck is just too supernatural.

Hah, perhaps so! I suppose that speaks to just how amazing he is as a player. That is the conflict of heart and mind.

 

For what it is worth, I check a dictionary off my shelf (a Webster) and it defines Luck as "a force that brings good fortune or adversity". That sounds like hocus pocus to me 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Lord of Oop North

[A Horse Named Stranger]

2 hours ago, baxus said:

Don't forget that Messi won Copa America last year, so that equals Cristiano's Euros.

Kinda missing the point. Point was: Not even a beaver gives a dam about the Nations League. It's sorta the Florida of Footballing competitions. (175) Nobody wanted it.

The European Championship is the title the Portugese will bang on about in 20 years (if they don't happen to add another major title by then (WC or another Euros)), not the bloody Nations League.

 

 

[butterweedstrover]

15 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Maybe France will be the first team to win back-to-back since Brazil in 1962. I think I would like that story more than Argentina winning.

I would rather that as well. But I’m worried about Mbappe’s psychology if France wins again. 

For someone so young to score two World Cup victories back to back must reinforce a lot of delusions of grandeur, even for those with a humble disposition. I have no idea how he is not gonna let this one get to his head.

[baxus]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Kinda missing the point. Point was: Not even a beaver gives a dam about the Nations League. It's sorta the Florida of Footballing competitions. (175) Nobody wanted it.

The European Championship is the title the Portugese will bang on about in 20 years (if they don't happen to add another major title by then (WC or another Euros)), not the bloody Nations League.

No argument to the bolded, but the original post wasn't about Portuguese fans, now was it? It was about "CR7 fans".

And I responded to your "fixed" version of BFC's post to point out that Messi has won one continental championship like Cronaldo, so that can't be the deciding factor between the two of them.

And I agree that no one gives a shit about Nations League to the point where most football fans would have to google who's won it.

[Padraig]

9 hours ago, Altherion said:

I think it was a fair statement. Croatia plays in a very specific style which allows them to sometimes defeat much stronger teams (almost always on penalties), but is not very fun to watch. Here are the match reports for their knockout games against Japan, Brazil and Argentina. Note that in 120 minutes (plus stoppage time), they had a grand total of 4 shots on target against Japan and exactly one (!) against Brazil. The Brazilians screwed up and that one shot went in, but it's pretty clear that Croatia is set up to play for penalties: they defend well and usually limit their attacking to shots from afar (hence the small number of shots on target).

I don't quite agree with that.  Croatia's biggest flaw is that they don't have an out and out striker.  They are technically good players.  They can pass it around quite well but they struggle to create many chances because they don't have a good enough target man to make that run or head that ball etc.

Before Argentina scored yesterday, I don't think you could say that Argentina was playing the pretty football and Croatia were sitting back, happy to defend.  Or even against Brazil, especially in the first half, there really wasn't much in it.

Croatia don't go all out to attack but then who does?  Spain are probably the team that tries the most, but people don't like how they attack, and don't think they are fun to watch either (I disagree with that too).

Anyhow, while there is a certain amount of caution in their play, I do think they are fun to watch (more so than the Swiss or Denmark say).  They would be more fun if they had a better striker but they are a tiny country, so they do very well with what they have.  No offense to Australia but if you compare technical ability with Croatia, there is a large gap.  And Morocco are far more defensive than Croatia.

I would have preferred if Brazil beat them but Croatia is far ahead of many other teams in the tournament.  They certainly aren't "a bunch of cloggers hoping to clog their way to penalties".  Any team with Modric in it can't be defined so.

[Padraig]

38 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

For someone so young to score two World Cup victories back to back must reinforce a lot of delusions of grandeur, even for those with a humble disposition. I have no idea how he is not gonna let this one get to his head.

Given his age, you can compare him to Pele.  And he didn't even get injured during the second WC!  So, no issues there then.

[BigFatCoward]

I have no issue with Mbappe becoming even more bloated with self importance and being toxic in the PSG/Real dressing room and costing either of those teams an almost unsustainable amount of money. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by BigFatCoward

[Corvinus85]

3 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

I have no issue with Mbappe becoming even more bloated with self importance and being toxic in the PSG/Real dressing room and costing either of those teams an almost unsustainable amount of money. 

Yes, I wouldn't mind seeing one of those big clubs bankrupting themselves in getting him should France win. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

4 hours ago, baxus said:

No argument to the bolded, but the original post wasn't about Portuguese fans, now was it? It was about "CR7 fans".

And I responded to your "fixed" version of BFC's post to point out that Messi has won one continental championship like Cronaldo, so that can't be the deciding factor between the two of them.

And I agree that no one gives a shit about Nations League to the point where most football fans would have to google who's won it.

For most parts that's probably interchangeable. I don't think you will find another group that will argue that Ray Piano was as good as, or even better than Messi and will refer to the NL as their selling point.

Real fans would rather invoke his club titles, or goal scoring records. 

 

Objectively speaking, he was a generational player, who had the bad fortune to be playing in the same era as Messi. He probably got as close to Messi as humanly possible. And he managed to beat out other more naturally gifted players likesay Neymar.

[BigFatCoward]

I currently have CR7 as number 4 all time. I have Messi at number 1 only because I didn't see enough of Pele or Maradona to compare. But their records speak for themselves. I don't think anyone ever had a peak like Maradona in 1986 WC, or the season he dragged Napoli to the title. 

[Corvinus85]

France doesn't forgive mistakes. 

[Spockydog]

Now we'll see what Morocco are like now that they actually have to score. 

[Consigliere]

3 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

I have no issue with Mbappe becoming even more bloated with self importance and being toxic in the PSG/Real dressing room and costing either of those teams an almost unsustainable amount of money. 

There's no such thing as an unsustainable amount of money for PSG so long as they are owned by Qatar. Same for Man City.

[BigFatCoward]

7 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Now we'll see what Morocco are like now that they actually have to score. 

That's their game plan screwed. I don't know if they do have a plan b. 

[polishgenius]

I still want Morocco to win but playing your captain when he's so injured he got burned for pace by Olivier Giroud is one of those really dumb mistakes.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

16 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

There's no such thing as an unsustainable amount of money for PSG so long as they are owned by Qatar. Same for Man City.

Didn't Qatar put their shares up for sale, or at least parts of it?

[Corvinus85]

A few too many fouls not resulting in a yellow card