The Darklyn coat of arms

[Potsk]

Is the Darklyn coat of arms ever described before it had seven Kingsguard? Before Aegon's Conquest, was the red pale still there? Was the coat of arms updated every time a Darklyn joined the Kingsguard or was it just when they had a total of seven? I feel like we should have variations on the Darklyn coat of arms on the wiki from those different times.

[Ran]

I've always supposed they started it at some point when they had more members than anyone else -- not the first, but perhaps by the  third member, and updated from there as each new member joined. Alternatively, when the number hit the holy number of seven was when they decided to do it...

George never clarified in our discussion around the arms. His first try at them had four white swords instead of escutcheons, and then he decided to up the number to seven and tried the escutcheons instead, which he liked more.

[The Wondering Wolf]

In this picture, which shows the tourney in 111 AC, the coat of arms has only four white escutcheons. Which is interesting, because we only know about four Darklyns serving in the Kingsguard till that point (including Steffon). The pale is on the wrong side, though.

[Ran]

2 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

In this picture, which shows the tourney in 111 AC, the coat of arms has only four white escutcheons. Which is interesting, because we only know about four Darklyns serving in the Kingsguard till that point (including Steffon). The pale is on the wrong side, though.

We suggested the number, I think, to Stone. But as I said, that's kind of what we've always assumed, so it's not necessarily George's intent. That said, his art director okayed it as well.

[The Wondering Wolf]

3 hours ago, Ran said:

We suggested the number, I think, to Stone. But as I said, that's kind of what we've always assumed, so it's not necessarily George's intent. That said, his art director okayed it as well.

Is there a specific reason why you came up with four instead of three then?

[Ran]

23 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Is there a specific reason why you came up with four instead of three then?

Because there were four Darklyns who had taken the white cloak at that point, including Ser Steffon...

[The Wondering Wolf]

3 hours ago, Ran said:

Because there were four Darklyns who had taken the white cloak at that point, including Ser Steffon...

I thought so, but there are only Robin, Davos, and Steffon.

[Ran]

1 minute ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

I thought so, but there are only Robin, Davos, and Steffon.

Those are the only named ones at that point, yes. We do not have a complete accounting of all the Kingsguard knights in the period covered in F&B, however.

[The Wondering Wolf]

14 minutes ago, Ran said:

Those are the only named ones at that point, yes. We do not have a complete accounting of all the Kingsguard knights in the period covered in F&B, however.

Ahh, so you just thought it would make sense that there was another one?

By the way, do you think that Darke is the name of Darklyns bastards? We know Jonquil was one, and unless she started a family, Harrold Darke must have got his name without being a descendant of her.

[Ran]

6 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

By the way, do you think that Darke is the name of Darklyns bastards? We know Jonquil was one, and unless she started a family, Harrold Darke must have got his name without being a descendant of her.

I think it started as a bastard name but probably became a family name. Could well be that Harrold Darke was her descendant.

[Potsk]

15 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Ahh, so you just thought it would make sense that there was another one?

By the way, do you think that Darke is the name of Darklyns bastards? We know Jonquil was one, and unless she started a family, Harrold Darke must have got his name without being a descendant of her.

I always thought Jonquil Darke was the origin story of the Darke family.

[The Wondering Wolf]

23 minutes ago, Potsk said:

I always thought Jonquil Darke was the origin story of the Darke family.

While that's a possibility, it's nowhere stated. I mean, she was a Kingsguard-like warrior woman who served Alysanne for more than thirty years (most likely the time when she would have been able to conceive children). Doesn't sound like someone who had a family on her own. But I guess that's a question one should GRRM ask himself.

[The hairy bear]

I may be missing something because the link to the image is broken for me, but in my copy of TWOIAF, Chase Stone's depiction of the Tourney of 111 shows the Darklyn banner with the seven shields        (although three of them are shaded).

[Ran]

Ah, well, maybe it was someone else we suggested it to! I'd have to see if the document files we used for notes are still around or not.