Hero and Martyr: Bowen Marsh

[Angel Eyes]

35 minutes ago, Rondo said:

Courage and boldness do not come naturally for Lord Bowen Marsh but he rose to the occasion and executed the Order's insane Lord Commander Snow.  Everything Jon did, doing, and about to do looked like the actions of a madman.  No other lord commander would have dared to start war with the families they were sworn to protect.  Jon went mad for Arya and got the watch into a situation which could have led to its end.  Bowen will go down as a criminal to the outside world but it was worth it to stop Jon Snow.  The brothers who were there will know it was right to give Jon the pointy end of the knife.  

And said families did nothing to help the Watch when they asked.

[sifth]

3 hours ago, Rondo said:

Courage and boldness do not come naturally for Lord Bowen Marsh but he rose to the occasion and executed the Order's insane Lord Commander Snow.  Everything Jon did, doing, and about to do looked like the actions of a madman.  No other lord commander would have dared to start war with the families they were sworn to protect.  Jon went mad for Arya and got the watch into a situation which could have led to its end.  Bowen will go down as a criminal to the outside world but it was worth it to stop Jon Snow.  The brothers who were there will know it was right to give Jon the pointy end of the knife.  

This honestly feels like a troll post. You know the Boltons enjoyed skinning people alive for their own amusement, lol

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

On 12/15/2022 at 5:53 PM, Craving Peaches said:

Bowen Marsh will end up dead. There's no way for him to escape the mess he has created.

You must mean the mess created by the late Lord Commander Jon Snow.  It was Jon who got the Watch involved in a political conflict with the Boltons. 

[Craving Peaches]

3 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

You must mean the mess created by the late Lord Commander Jon Snow.

It is quite clear I mean the mess create by Bowen Marsh who murdered the leader of the Watch in a time of crisis. This will likely have a destabilising effect.

3 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

It was Jon who got the Watch involved in a political conflict with the Boltons. 

The Watch was already involved in a political conflict through no fault of Jon's.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Bowen is the better man.  Jon was irrational in his last chapters.  I agree with Bowen and his allies.  Jon needed to go.  It may be a little too late to stop the Wildlings from escalating the disagreement with the Boltons into bloody war though.  Jon created a problem which will destroy the watch.  He died quickly and left his problem for Bowen Marsh to clean up.  

[Bowen Marsh]

On 12/14/2022 at 11:56 PM, James West said:

Bowen Marsh is one of the most maligned characters in "A Song of ice and Fire."  The slander always come from a vocal segment of the fandom.  He  is a person who knowingly accepted future suffering or death to stop Jon Snow from causing further harm to the Night's Watch and Westeros.  We all seem to agree that bad things are coming his way.  He did nothing wrong and can end up a martyr.  He will not have enough men to stop the Wildlings from leaving the castle and riding to war against Roose Bolton.  

The last book scene with Bowen Marsh had the loyal steward and the other brave brothers of the Night's Watch in tears as they ended the reign of who is perhaps the worst lord commander in the history of the Night's Watch.  The assassination was a reaction to Jon's speech at the Shield Hall.  The arrival of the Pink Letter exposed Jon's surreptitious activities against Lord Roose Bolton and Westeros.  Jon's revelation and admission were damning evidence against him.  He further told the gathered crowd of his intentions to lead an army of Wildlings to attack Lord Roose.  

Bowen Marsh did what any loyal man of the watch would have done.  The assassination was not a pre-planned attack.  It was an impromptu decision made at the very last minute in order to stop a madman from leading a hastily formed army of barbarians on a raid against a noble house of Westeros.  It was not a conspiracy from the Lannisters.  Bowen was not trying to usurp Jon.  Bowen had been loyal to Jon up to the time of the latter's Shield Hall talk.

We must hope for a speedy election of a new lord commander at the wall.  Aliser is a good choice if he is still alive.  

   Nicely said. 

[Angel Eyes]

5 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Bowen is the better man.  Jon was irrational in his last chapters.  I agree with Bowen and his allies.  Jon needed to go.  It may be a little too late to stop the Wildlings from escalating the disagreement with the Boltons into bloody war though.  Jon created a problem which will destroy the watch.  He died quickly and left his problem for Bowen Marsh to clean up.  

Tell me, would you rather be facing wildlings or wights?

[Moiraine Sedai]

The ghost of Jon Snow will haunt Castle Black. A cold, pale wraith with a wolf. Jon betrayed the Watch during his life. He’ll betray them again as a wight. 

[Angel Eyes]

5 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

The ghost of Jon Snow will haunt Castle Black. A cold, pale wraith with a wolf. Jon betrayed the Watch during his life. He’ll betray them again as a wight. 

You do know ghosts and wights are different right? Ghosts don't show up in ASOIAF.

[James West]

On 12/15/2022 at 2:03 AM, Aebram said:

The first person to stab John was Wick Whittlestick, not Bowen.  Bowen was the second; and there was a third and fourth knife as well, although the text doesn't tell us who wielded them.  But unless Bowen and Wick were both carrying two knives, there had to be at least one additional killer.  This suggests that there was some advance planning.

They were all acting based on the admissions by Jon Snow.  They were all upset with Jon.  It's not only two men.  All of the watch would feel the need to do this.  

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

1 hour ago, James West said:

They were all acting based on the admissions by Jon Snow.  They were all upset with Jon.  It's not only two men.  All of the watch would feel the need to do this.  

Wrong. The ones incapable of complex thought would feel the need to do this.

[Roswell]

8 hours ago, James West said:

They were all acting based on the admissions by Jon Snow.  They were all upset with Jon.  It's not only two men.  All of the watch would feel the need to do this.  

Samwell would have wept but he would agree with Bowen Marsh.  I don't think Samwell could knife Jon but he would understand why Jon has to be removed from his position.  Better if Jon could have been arrested and executed but that was not going to happen.  Jon was not going to let anyone get in the way of rescuing his sister.  It had to happen the way it did.  It was a traumatic moment for all of them.  

[Angel Eyes]

8 hours ago, Roswell said:

Samwell would have wept but he would agree with Bowen Marsh. 

Prove it. Sam wants to protect the realm but Bowen Marsh would gladly add to the enemies the realm has by leaving the wildlings out to be killed and become wights.

[SeanF]

On 12/20/2022 at 3:42 AM, sifth said:

This honestly feels like a troll post. You know the Boltons enjoyed skinning people alive for their own amusement, lol

Some people have a very skewed moral compass.

The Boltons and Lannisters are right and just.  For  … reasons.

Letting one’s sister be raped, and the smallfolk be abused is right and just.  For … reasons.

it’s like the anti-Daenerys posts where people defend human traffickers.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

8 hours ago, Roswell said:

Samwell would have wept but he would agree with Bowen Marsh.  I don't think Samwell could knife Jon but he would understand why Jon has to be removed from his position.  Better if Jon could have been arrested and executed but that was not going to happen.  Jon was not going to let anyone get in the way of rescuing his sister.  It had to happen the way it did.  It was a traumatic moment for all of them.  

You are utterly delusional. First off Sam would’ve been smart enough to realize Jon did nothing wrong. Secondly he loves Jon more than anyone else, he would never agree to let it happen, let alone be a part of it. He would informed Jon and co of the traitor’s intentions to usurp their commander as soon as he was made aware of such a treacherous and evil plot.

[Angel Eyes]

46 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

You are utterly delusional. First off Sam would’ve been smart enough to realize Jon did nothing wrong. Secondly he loves Jon more than anyone else, he would never agree to let it happen, let alone be a part of it. He would informed Jon and co of the traitor’s intentions to usurp their commander as soon as he was made aware of such a treacherous and evil plot.

Not to mention if there's anyone to blame for the Night's Watch going (more) to pot, it would be Sam since it was his idea to elect Jon to Lord Commander, cutting off support from most of the Seven Kingdoms because the Night's Watch didn't elect Janos Slynt as Lord Commander.

[kissdbyfire]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:51 PM, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

It’d be even funnier if the Boltons somehow got him and made a cloak out of him

[Almost] no one deserves to become the Boltons  plaything but I’d be happy to see the Pomegranate become Ramsay’s chew toy.  

[kissdbyfire]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

Some people have a very skewed moral compass.

The Boltons and Lannisters are right and just.  For  … reasons.

Letting one’s sister be raped, and the smallfolk be abused is right and just.  For … reasons.

it’s like the anti-Daenerys posts where people defend human traffickers.

Is it a moral compass issue or is it just plain trolling? Of course, there’s a third possibility… 

[SeanF]

12 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Is it a moral compass issue or is it just plain trolling? Of course, there’s a third possibility… 

I think the term is “Lawful Stupid.”

The law says the Boltons are the rightful lords of the North.  Therefore, they are entitled to rape and torture at will.  Therefore it is wrong to oppose them.

[Rondo]

On 12/19/2022 at 7:39 PM, Angel Eyes said:

And said families did nothing to help the Watch when they asked.

It doesn't matter.  The Watch does not take sides.  They protect not individual families but the kingdom as a whole.