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Hero and Martyr: Bowen Marsh


James West

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7 minutes ago, Rondo said:

It doesn't matter.  The Watch does not take sides.  They protect not individual families but the kingdom as a whole.  

Perhaps I should rephrase it, The Kingdoms apart from Stannis did nothing to help the Watch when they asked.

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16 hours ago, Texas Hold Em said:

I would let Jon believe he had won.  Don't get in his way.  Send a bird to Ramsay with a warning message.  Give the time of departure and the number of men with Jon so Ramsay can prepare a defense.  

So collaboration with a sadistic and monstruous psychopath who torture, rape and flay for fun and committing treason against the Lord Commander again, and with it still not garuanteed that Ramsay won't assault and flay the Watch to get his "Arya" and "Reek" back. 

Yeah that's such a good action to take...

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Sure, warn Ramsay because the only things that matter are: 

a) be on the ‘winning’ side

b) obey whoever is ‘in charge’, because either the fact that they’re in charge means they are supposed to be there like the divine right of kings or you’re too much of a coward to take a stand or you’re totally fine w/ vile atrocities being committed on a regular basis. 
Which is interesting because all those who support Bowen and say he should side with Ramsay are the same people who totally defend Dany trying to end the vile atrocities being committed in Slaver’s Bay. Going by the ‘logic’ of supporting Bowen & Ramsay, these people should either support the status quo and also the slavers or support Jon’s efforts and despise people like Bowen and Ramsay. Cognitive dissonance much? 
I think Jon and Dany are right in standing up against oppression & despotism. 

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On 12/25/2022 at 7:08 AM, Darryk said:

Bowen Marsh is a vile coward with a dumb name.

Bowen Marsh is a name for a crannogman.  BM is really a hero.  He's not the bravest of the crows but he was able to summon the needed courage to stop Jon Snow.  

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On 12/24/2022 at 8:45 PM, kissdbyfire said:

Sure, warn Ramsay because the only things that matter are: 

a) be on the ‘winning’ side

b) obey whoever is ‘in charge’, because either the fact that they’re in charge means they are supposed to be there like the divine right of kings or you’re too much of a coward to take a stand or you’re totally fine w/ vile atrocities being committed on a regular basis. 
Which is interesting because all those who support Bowen and say he should side with Ramsay are the same people who totally defend Dany trying to end the vile atrocities being committed in Slaver’s Bay. Going by the ‘logic’ of supporting Bowen & Ramsay, these people should either support the status quo and also the slavers or support Jon’s efforts and despise people like Bowen and Ramsay. Cognitive dissonance much? 
I think Jon and Dany are right in standing up against oppression & despotism. 

It should not be hard to understand.  Roose/Ramsay/Tywin/The Freys/the Slavers  are not the good guys in this tale.

That does not make Jon/Stannis/Robb/Dany wholly good, but they are all much better than what they are up against.

It really does not take a close reading to appreciate this.

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1 hour ago, SeanF said:

It should not be hard to understand.  Roose/Ramsay/Tywin/The Freys/the Slavers  are not the good guys in this tale.

You would have thought, right? So would I, and apparently we’d both be very wrong! Hilarious. 

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

That does not make Jon/Stannis/Robb/Dany wholly good, but they are all much better than what they are up against.

Exactly! And we can’t really say much about Robb and Stannis b/c they’re not PoVs, but Jon and Dany, while we see that they make the occasional mistake, we are also in their heads and know they want to do what’s right. Their hearts are in the right place, they never act out of malice. 

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

It really does not take a close reading to appreciate this.

It shouldn’t. But as I’ve said a gazillion times at this point, I honestly do not understand how and why someone would rather come across as being incapable of basic reading comprehension than conceding that maybe my ‘most hated character in the universe’ did something right or acceptable. It’s baffling. 
 

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9 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Lol? He worships Falsehoods of the Seven. No Crannogmen.

According to a wiki, BM is from the North, nowhere near the swamps of the Neck.  He worships the Seven instead of the Old Gods of the North.  He’s a dumpy looser who ain’t too bright, and definitely not a Crannogman. 

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On 12/23/2022 at 4:50 PM, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

You are utterly delusional. First off Sam would’ve been smart enough to realize Jon did nothing wrong. Secondly he loves Jon more than anyone else, he would never agree to let it happen, let alone be a part of it. He would informed Jon and co of the traitor’s intentions to usurp their commander as soon as he was made aware of such a treacherous and evil plot.

You underestimate Samwell's honor.  Just remember who it was who brought Jon back to the wall after the latter deserted.  Jon rode out with the full intent to fight for the Starks instead of defend the wall.  Samwell had to bring Jon back.  There is honor in Samwell.  He has dedication to the Brotherhood.  Jon had none.  It became known to all that Jon had been up to no good.  He told them what he was going to do and it was treason.  Samwell loves Jon but he has enough honor and sense to know Jon is wrong.  Samwell would do his best to pound sense into Jon's thick head.  Jon won't listen.  Samwell will have no choice except to stop Jon. 

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1 hour ago, Roswell said:

You underestimate Samwell's honor.  Just remember who it was who brought Jon back to the wall after the latter deserted.  Jon rode out with the full intent to fight for the Starks instead of defend the wall.  Samwell had to bring Jon back.  There is honor in Samwell.  He has dedication to the Brotherhood.  Jon had none.  It became known to all that Jon had been up to no good.  He told them what he was going to do and it was treason.  Samwell loves Jon but he has enough honor and sense to know Jon is wrong.  Samwell would do his best to pound sense into Jon's thick head.  Jon won't listen.  Samwell will have no choice except to stop Jon. 

He has enough honor and sanity to know Jon was completely in the right and did nothing wrong.

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2 hours ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

He has enough honor and sanity to know Jon was completely in the right and did nothing wrong.

So did LC Geor Mormont. He gave Jon the space to realize his error and return to Castle Black. 

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9 hours ago, LongRider said:

So did LC Geor Mormont. He gave Jon the space to realize his error and return to Castle Black. 

And that was a big mistake.  The watch is now facing a wildling mutiny, the anger of the Boltons, a giant gone berserk, and too many useless mouths to feed.  All because of their incompetent leader, Jon Snow.  

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