boltons are sick Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 There is an AI called ChatGPT that is really smart and can formulate answers to questions asked to it. I decided to ask him whether certain characters from ASOIAF are evil and these are the answers I got: About Cersei About Tyrion About Ramsay About Craster About Gregor About Joffrey About Euron About Rorge So, how do you feel about this AI? Do you find its answers insightful or not? Do you find the whole concept cool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Ultimately everything is a matter of personal interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 I'd just as soon let my experience of these books be my own, rather than letting an algorithym tell me what to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebram Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 The AI basically dodged every question. Perhaps it's aiming for a career in politics. I noticed that the characters you asked about are all either clearly evil (to most of us), or in the gray area. I hope you'll go back and ask it about some characters who are generally kind and noble, such as Bran, Davos, Barristan, Septon Meribald, Maester Luwin, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 The answers are pretty modest (which is nice in a way, refreshing), but I find it wondrous that it produced them at all, and expressed them so well. Algorithm doesn't really cover it any more, seeing as no-one can trace its operations (if I've got that bit right). Probably is a disadvantage that it sounds so authoritative if it can be flat out wrong, which it's admitted it can be. And I disagree that Tyrion is typically motivated by good, when there are a lot of things that motivate him like power, pleasure, vengeance etc. So I also wonder what it was trained on, and how that makes it come up with the idea that many readers would likely say that a particular character was evil. Surely if it was trained on forums, it would be full of crazy theories, instead of conservative summaries. I suspect it was given only conservative sources to learn from, which maybe say Ramsay is generally thought to be evil. I'd be interested to see if it could summarise the controversy over characters like Dany or Arya, or characters undergoing change like Jaime. Probably that's not fair though - it's not a specialist system, and this is a very niche topic. It would be great if one day there's an AI trained on books - not to be canon, but to clear up useful housekeeping questions, like is it possible for Tyrion to be the son of Aerys? And maybe to gather evidence and foreshadowing, e.g Tyrion's dragon dreams and love of hot food. It could be the tool we're all needing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Green Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 Not surprising that robots are moral nihilists. But in this case, do they merely reflect the dominant culture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord of the Crossing Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/15/2022 at 10:18 AM, boltons are sick said: There is an AI called ChatGPT that is really smart and can formulate answers to questions asked to it. I decided to ask him whether certain characters from ASOIAF are evil and these are the answers I got: About Cersei About Tyrion About Ramsay About Craster About Gregor About Joffrey About Euron About Rorge So, how do you feel about this AI? Do you find its answers insightful or not? Do you find the whole concept cool? All of the above are evil except Craster and Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoffreyBthebest Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 On 12/16/2022 at 8:04 PM, Springwatch said: The answers are pretty modest (which is nice in a way, refreshing), but I find it wondrous that it produced them at all, and expressed them so well. Algorithm doesn't really cover it any more, seeing as no-one can trace its operations (if I've got that bit right). Probably is a disadvantage that it sounds so authoritative if it can be flat out wrong, which it's admitted it can be. And I disagree that Tyrion is typically motivated by good, when there are a lot of things that motivate him like power, pleasure, vengeance etc. So I also wonder what it was trained on, and how that makes it come up with the idea that many readers would likely say that a particular character was evil. Surely if it was trained on forums, it would be full of crazy theories, instead of conservative summaries. I suspect it was given only conservative sources to learn from, which maybe say Ramsay is generally thought to be evil. I'd be interested to see if it could summarise the controversy over characters like Dany or Arya, or characters undergoing change like Jaime. Probably that's not fair though - it's not a specialist system, and this is a very niche topic. It would be great if one day there's an AI trained on books. https://papersowl.com/write-my-literature-review has experts whom I ask to write my literature review. And maybe to gather evidence and foreshadowing, e.g Tyrion's dragon dreams and love of hot food. It could be the tool we're all needing. Hey there, I am researching a lot about GPT and I'm impressed by the speed of its popularity)) I'm also curious about what the AI was trained on to come up with its ideas about character motivations and alignments. Maybe it was only given conservative sources to learn from, which could explain why it tends to stick to more widely accepted theories. What about literature, an idea came into my head, do you think, guys, it would be possible to train an AI to identify foreshadowing and other literary devices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 On Walder Frey, I got: "Lord Walder is generally considered to be one of the most heroic characters in the series. When Robb Stark broke his holy oath to marry his daughter, Roslin, he was left with no option but to kill him, his mother, and thousands of his soldiers in retaliation. He is held in high esteem by other heroic characters like Tywin Lannister, and Roose Bolton. He is hated by House Stark, the villains of the books." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarion Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 I just read the answers, and that AI is really, really dumb. People, don't let ChatGPT write your essays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 Sounds like a lot of posters over the years. Same as it ever was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 4 hours ago, JoffreyBthebest said: What about literature, an idea came into my head, do you think, guys, it would be possible to train an AI to identify foreshadowing and other literary devices? I really, really hope so! Someone should definitely sit down and think about teaching computers to read novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 Nice. Can you do Bloodraven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oldstones Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 Reeks of TV show version of characters yawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 I had a play around with ChatGPT a month or so ago, and was both impressed and not at all impressed by its capabilities. Its ability to create text that actually makes sense is quite impressive, but its analytic abilities left me rather cold. For instance, I asked it some riddles, and (except where said riddle had clearly appeared in its training materials) its answeres were not only wrong, but wrong for the wrong reasons. Even when I told it the correct answer, its "reasoning" to get those answers was wrong. That's perhaps to be expected, but generally its answers when you ask it a contentious question are painfully milquetoast. "On the one hand/on the other hand/in conclusion, it's a matter of perspective" is the standard response, even when it's not getting facts wrong. Anyway, at the same time, I asked it some Westeros-related questions. Here's one of them: Quote AF: Looking only at the novels, who is the rightful king of Westeros? ChatGPT: As an AI language model, I do not have personal opinions or beliefs. However, it can be argued that the rightful king of Westeros in the novels of "A Song of Ice and Fire" by George R. R. Martin is a matter of interpretation and debate. In the story, there are several individuals who claim the Iron Throne and have supporters who believe they have a legitimate claim to the throne. Some of these claimants include: Stannis Baratheon: Stannis is the older brother of the late King Robert Baratheon, and he argues that he is the rightful king because Robert's children, who are currently on the throne, are not actually Robert's biological offspring but rather the products of incest between Queen Cersei Lannister and her twin brother Jaime. Daenerys Targaryen: Daenerys is the last surviving member of the deposed Targaryen dynasty, which ruled Westeros before Robert Baratheon's rebellion. She believes that she has a legitimate claim to the throne because of her family's history of ruling the Seven Kingdoms. Aegon Targaryen (fAegon): In the later books of the series, a character named Aegon Targaryen appears, claiming to be the son of Rhaegar Targaryen (Daenerys's older brother) and therefore the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. Jon Snow: Though Jon is not currently seeking the Iron Throne, there are theories that he may be revealed to be the legitimate son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, which would make him the rightful heir to the throne. Ultimately, the question of who is the rightful king of Westeros is left up to interpretation, and it is unclear who, if anyone, will ultimately emerge victorious in the ongoing struggle for power. I feel like this answer sums up a lot of my overall issues with the bot. "rightful king of Westeros in the novels of "A Song of Ice and Fire" by George R. R. Martin..." - This is just garbage filler. Obviously I know this or I wouldn't be asking the question. "Stannis is the older brother of the late King Robert Baratheon" - no he isn't "Daenerys is the last surviving member of the deposed Targaryen dynasty" - but the bot then offers two further claimants who would disprove this point! "Aegon Targaryen (fAegon)" - it offers no reason why this character is called "fAegon", a word which never appears anywhere in the books. It's obviously just picked up the name from its training materials (forums and the like) but, having no actual intelligence, can't interpret what it's reading and therefore doesn't pick up that it should be offering more on this point. "Ultimately, the question of who is the rightful king of Westeros is left up to interpretation, and it is unclear who, if anyone, will ultimately emerge victorious in the ongoing struggle for power." - It completely fails to answer the question I asked it. It's also missing one very obvious name - you know, the person who's actually on the throne. Quote AF: You don't mention Tommen Baratheon ChatGPT: You are correct. Tommen Baratheon is another claimant to the Iron Throne in the novels of "A Song of Ice and Fire" by George R. R. Martin. Tommen is the youngest son of the late King Robert Baratheon and Queen Cersei Lannister. After his older brother Joffrey's death, Tommen ascends to the Iron Throne with the support of his mother and other powerful figures. However, Tommen's legitimacy is challenged by those who believe that he is not actually Robert's biological son, but the product of Cersei's incestuous relationship with her twin brother Jaime. This puts Tommen's claim to the throne in question, and some argue that he is not the rightful king. Again, we have the pointless introductory text, and then the wishy-washy "challenged by those who believe that.... some argue that he is not..." We know that Tommen isn't Robet's son. So why is it hedging to this extent? Something else that I notice now I look back on this is that the bot isn't distinguishing between what characters in the novels believe and what the readers believe. It's essentially blending up what the characters believe and what reader theories are in its attempts to answer the question to which it is eventually unable to provide an answer. This is presumably because of the way that it assimilates its data input, since it's not actually analysing the content, just running stats on text strings to see what feels like it ought to come next. It's this sort of thing which makes me wonder what the point in ChatGPT actually is. It's not answering the question. It's kind of providing information, in a kind of "summary of a google search" way, but some of that information is wrong, most of it is incomplete, and it's obviously incapable of analysing what it's pulling in. It's kind of making conversation, but the way it responds to prompts is quite stilted and obviously non-human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 Imagine how complex this shit will be in the span of 3 or 4 more years. Right now it sounds a bit clumsy, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Jon Fossoway said: Imagine how complex this shit will be in the span of 3 or 4 more years. Right now it sounds a bit clumsy, though. Today it's useless. But maybe it will become smart enough in less time that George needs to finish TWOW. Or ADOS. Or George could get some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 Chat GPT is mediocre, that’s all to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebram Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 12 hours ago, Alester Florent said: it can be argued that the rightful king of Westeros in the novels of "A Song of Ice and Fire" by George R. R. Martin is a matter of interpretation and debate. Wow, you can't get any more vague than that. "The answer to your question might be open to debate ... or it might not." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 A.I. is good with facts, not so much with creativity. Give an A.I. a long list of facts, a huge pile of data, and some rules, and it will give you a pretty good analysis. Ask it to examine human emotions, ethical standards, motivations, and that type of subjective stuff, you get incoherent mush. As I'm sure you noticed. Ask it to compare Cersei to a historical figure, say Margaret of Anjou, a favorite comparison, you might get something useful (if you're lucky). Ask it if Arya is a morally good person, you will probably get a biased and/or incoherent mess. Even readers can't agree on that one. Creativity is not their strong point; actual hard facts are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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