Corvo the Crow Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 White Walkers had shown no aggression towards him, meaning their intentions was probably peaceful. He has shown aggression towards this delegation coming to peace negotiations. He was a NW and looked very much like Jon, a Stark, so WW probably thought the negotiatons were off the table starting to launch their attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 To be fair, he says 'Dance with me then', WW didn't have to accept or go for the kill, could have just beaten him like it wasn't a duel to the death and explained their intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: White Walkers had shown no aggression towards him, meaning their intentions was probably peaceful. He has shown aggression towards this delegation coming to peace negotiations. He was a NW and looked very much like Jon, a Stark, so WW probably thought the negotiatons were off the table starting to launch their attacks. Yeah, that’s not what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 37 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said: Yeah, that’s not what happened. Waymar saw them and challenged them. They didn't attack him on sight, why? Because their intentions were peaceful. How many of them were there 5? 6? It's not an invasion force, especially against 1000 men strong watch, which they didn't know either, the last time they were around Watch probably had tens of thousands of members and armed to the teeth with Obsidian, so a handful of tighty whiteys are even less of a threat to that watch they knew. Obviously they were on a diplomatic mission. Waymar, the brave lad, due to his ignorance has shown aggression and challenged them, he paid it with his life but also destroyed a chance of peace. His ignorance, I don't blame him for, since it's the Watch's fault that they don't give proper history lessons on their recruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said: To be fair, he says 'Dance with me then', WW didn't have to accept or go for the kill, could have just beaten him like it wasn't a duel to the death and explained their intentions. Remember that these two parties(humans and tighty whitey walkers) were at a time enemies and only through the great efforts of the Last Hero, also known as the 13th commander of NW, who waswas probably the brother of Brandon Stark and named Jon Snow has made peace. A peace which was under threat possibly due to humans violating terms of that peace. The Wall is obviously made to serve as a border to mark whose land lies where and WW had a hand in it's building since it is mostly made up of ice, their expertise. Humans(Wildlings) have been tresspassing and squatting for thousands of years in WW lands and yet there haven't been any major attacks reported. Waymar's aggression towards that diplomatic mission was the last straw. It's all a misunderstanding, really, Jon will fix that in no time and hopefully get a bride white as fresh fallen snow with eyes blue as ice so they can seal the deal with a marriage pact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: Waymar saw them and challenged them. They didn't attack him on sight, why? Because their intentions were peaceful. How many of them were there 5? 6? It's not an invasion force, especially against 1000 men strong watch, which they didn't know either, the last time they were around Watch probably had tens of thousands of members and armed to the teeth with Obsidian, so a handful of tighty whiteys are even less of a threat to that watch they knew. Obviously they were on a diplomatic mission. Waymar, the brave lad, due to his ignorance has shown aggression and challenged them, he paid it with his life but also destroyed a chance of peace. His ignorance, I don't blame him for, since it's the Watch's fault that they don't give proper history lessons on their recruits. They were testing him, to see if he was TPTWP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Maybe they just wanted a dance like he offered and he tried to kill them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted December 16, 2022 Author Share Posted December 16, 2022 2 hours ago, astarkchoice said: Maybe they just wanted a dance like he offered and he tried to kill them! A snowflake fell, then an Other. Dance with me Jon Snow. You’ll dance with me anon. They hoped for a dance with Jon Snow but got Waymar the impersonator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebram Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 Didn't the Others kill a group of Free Folk shortly before Royce and his men found them? That certainly doesn't indicate peaceful intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Green Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 I take the simple view. They killed him because they are asshats. Demonic death incarnate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted December 17, 2022 Author Share Posted December 17, 2022 5 hours ago, Aebram said: Didn't the Others kill a group of Free Folk shortly before Royce and his men found them? That certainly doesn't indicate peaceful intentions. But beyond the wall is Others' territory. Others were tresspassing, they applied castle doctrine. If their intentions weren't peaceful, Waymar would've been dead long before he could ever ask them for a dance. They approached him and made their presence known because he was a member of the NW and a Stark(they thought that way, he looks very much like a Stark). They probably thought he was a descendant of the Last Hero, the Night's King who was a brother to Brandon the Breaker and made peace possible by taking an Other bride but was called the black brother for his noble action and cursed for eternity. The guy made peace with a race that is superior in power and could get very violent if they want to and they repay him by killing him and his beautiful bride, pure as fresh fallen snow and tearing down everything he has worked so hard for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/16/2022 at 5:32 AM, Corvo the Crow said: White Walkers had shown no aggression towards him, meaning their intentions was probably peaceful. He has shown aggression towards this delegation coming to peace negotiations. He was a NW and looked very much like Jon, a Stark, so WW probably thought the negotiatons were off the table starting to launch their attacks. That is a good question. Royce was trespassing. His uniform was black but he doesn't have the long face of the Starks. The WWs would have recognized a Stark. They have the power of skinchange. They would detect the same in Jon Snow. And shake his hands and think he's the reincarnation of the Night King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingintheNorth4 Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 On 12/16/2022 at 9:46 AM, astarkchoice said: Maybe they just wanted a dance like he offered and he tried to kill them! You Got Served, the medieval fantasy version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wm Portnoy Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 Betrayals are the cause of the long night in Westeros. Betrayal is the worst of all sins in the novels. It is a violation of trust. The guest rights is based on trust. Honor and oaths are based on trust. The Wall will stay strong as long as the men of the Watch remain true to their vows. The mutiny at Craster's was a betrayal of that trust. Jon's partiality and the war he started with Ramsay violated that trust too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadden Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 On 12/16/2022 at 2:32 AM, Corvo the Crow said: White Walkers had shown no aggression towards him, meaning their intentions was probably peaceful. He has shown aggression towards this delegation coming to peace negotiations. He was a NW and looked very much like Jon, a Stark, so WW probably thought the negotiatons were off the table starting to launch their attacks. I believe that the white shadow perfectly mirrors Waymar’s every move. If you reread the duel with the idea that the Other is his shadow I think you’ll see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Waymar asks "who goes there?" and they don't answer, but one of them approaches with drawn sword. He draws his own in response and the Other attacks. Clearly, this was all Waymar's fault for being unprovokedly aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 7 hours ago, Alester Florent said: Waymar asks "who goes there?" and they don't answer, but one of them approaches with drawn sword. He draws his own in response and the Other attacks. Clearly, this was all Waymar's fault for being unprovokedly aggressive. White Walkers could've been edgy with their encounter with the squatting wildlings immediately before Waymar. Also they may be angry at him too, he is Night's Watch, it is his job to guard the border between realms of men and WW. Maybe if Waymar just bent WW would give him a good cold spanking as a chastisement and it would be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 We have literally nothing in the text to suggest the Others' intentions were peaceful. They kill some wildlings, they make no attempt to communicate with Waymar, they advance on him with weapons drawn, initiate the combat, mock him, and then when he's wounded they hack him to death. They then reanimate him as a wight and murder the witness. None of this implies any sort of attempt to negotiate, in good faith or otherwise. This strikes me as one of those takes that is revisionist merely for the sake of being contrary, and selectively interprets the evidence to fit, ignoring the bulk of it. And it's not entertaining enough to be a worthwhile mock-troll post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 42 minutes ago, Alester Florent said: We have literally nothing in the text to suggest the Others' intentions were peaceful. They kill some wildlings, they make no attempt to communicate with Waymar, they advance on him with weapons drawn, initiate the combat, mock him, and then when he's wounded they hack him to death. They then reanimate him as a wight and murder the witness. None of this implies any sort of attempt to negotiate, in good faith or otherwise. This strikes me as one of those takes that is revisionist merely for the sake of being contrary, and selectively interprets the evidence to fit, ignoring the bulk of it. And it's not entertaining enough to be a worthwhile mock-troll post. Should strike as a fun post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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