I’m Genuinely Curious…

[TheLastWolf]

2 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Ok. You've just put up a Dany hate thread, full of BS and mischaracterisations. What gives?

Man come on! He's perfectly right

[TheLastWolf]

8 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

Arya has become a monster

Well by modern standards if you call a man a 'sir' and he/it identifies as a tree or shit, you are a monster. 21rst century morality out please in Planetos.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

27 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Ok. You've just put up a Dany hate thread, full of BS and mischaracterisations. What gives?

To see what happens

[Springwatch]

27 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

To see what happens

Sort of a fair fight between Jon fans and Dany fans? Ok then, just wake me up come springtime.

But what will you do if Jon and Dany fall in love?

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

32 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Sort of a fair fight between Jon fans and Dany fans? Ok then, just wake me up come springtime.

But what will you do if Jon and Dany fall in love?

Cringe. Tbh I don’t hate Dany at all. 

[sifth]

Just a theory, but one of the more interesting parts of this series is the simple fact that the villains sometimes win. One could even argue they win more times in this series than any other. The end result being, that some of the fans actually enjoy rooting for the villains now, more so than the heroes, which are obviously the Starks. Add in a few troll posts that could very possibly be from the same person and there you go.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

I am often befuddled by the Stark and Dany hate in this forum and on Reddit, but maybe that interpretation is because most fantasy stories are a little more clear about who is good versus bad.

GRRM intentionally wants to explore the gray areas, the unclear subtleties, the circumstances when multiple moral concerns are in direct conflict.

He likes writing characters with flaws, or at least make major mistakes and face the consequences.

He doesn't equate a morally commendable decision or an act of bravery with successful outcomes. As mentioned by others, the gods seem to punish the do-gooders and reward the truly awful people.

But, also mentioned by others, the story is not yet complete. GRRM won't pivot to cheap sunny optimism by the end, but the resolution will showcase various characters' strengths and acts of heroism, and at the very least will provide the promise of something better for the future. 

But until that end comes, things are quite bleak, with the well intentioned characters seemingly punished as fools, or tarred by others as villains. 

Such hatred of the story's heroes is the price of ambiguity, I guess. But I'm pretty confident that their role as heroes will be clear for all but the most stubborn readers by the series' end.

 

 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

8 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

I am often befuddled by the Stark and Dany hate in this forum and on Reddit.

Which ones of the Starks are hated? 

[LongRider]

30 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Which ones of the Starks are hated? 

In my experience, Sansa, Arya and Jon. With shade thrown onto Robb and Bran from time to time. 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

2 minutes ago, LongRider said:

In my experience, Sansa, Arya and Jon. With shade thrown onto Robb and Bran from time to time. 

Yup.

[EggBlue]

6 hours ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

To see what happens

you're doing an experiment? are you trying tp identify the cult members?

[Raven Princling]

I find this so weird too. Before I lurked and eventually joined the forum, I had no idea people had such strong opinions (at least outside the show fandom). It's one thing to not enjoy chapters or find the characters bland. But they always spew complete nonsense, ignore the text and a lot of character development, claiming Starks are monsters, abominations and etc. while treating Daenerys like a sole protagonist of the story that can do no wrong (which is obviously wrong). Like others have said, they speak in a similar manner and never reply to counterarguments. But the weirdest thing to me is that they speak as if they are stating a fact and are George himself, instead of fans discussing and speculating about an upcoming book in a forum. It comes off more like trying to convince someone or themselves, instead of speculation and discussion.

I assume they are fans who were angry about how the show ended and want the books to go differently. It's very odd either way and I try not to reply to them too much.

[Alden Rothack]

12 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Well by modern standards if you call a man a 'sir' and he/it identifies as a tree or shit, you are a monster. 21rst century morality out please in Planetos.

I've met plenty of shits i've never had one admit it though

as for the standard of monster, the idea of heroes being good rather than just exceptionally capable is a 20th century invention

As for as the starks go I don't hate any of them, though I strongly dislike Catelyn both for her treatment of Jon and her causing numerous problems for her children

Ned should have been wiser but he was a second son who was fostered in the south, his unfortunate streak of honor and willingness of tolerate a southron wife is therefore inescapable.

 

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

16 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

I've met plenty of shits i've never had one admit it though

as for the standard of monster, the idea of heroes being good rather than just exceptionally capable is a 20th century invention

As for as the starks go I don't hate any of them, though I strongly dislike Catelyn both for her treatment of Jon and her causing numerous problems for her children

Ned should have been wiser but he was a second son who was fostered in the south, his unfortunate streak of honor and willingness of tolerate a southron wife is therefore inescapable.

 

See those are valid criticisms.

but there are people that swear that the Starks+Jon are the biggest villains in the series

[Alden Rothack]

Just now, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

See those are valid criticisms.

but there are people that swear that the Starks+Jon are the biggest villains in the series

Someone can say anything they want, it doesn't make it true

in this case they are about three thousand leagues off

Do I think the starks could have been done a number of things better, of course but thats no reason to hate them

I don't hate Danerys either as its not her fault shes mad as a hatter

I do hate Tywin, Roose, Ramsey, Cersei, most of the Greyjoys, Most of the Freys, a bunch of other shits I forget at 5 am

I dislike Doran, Jon Arryn, Hoster Tully, Kevin Lannister, Genna Lannister and probably some other people I'm forgetting

[YourHighnessTargaryen]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:44 AM, Raven Princling said:

I find this so weird too. Before I lurked and eventually joined the forum, I had no idea people had such strong opinions (at least outside the show fandom). It's one thing to not enjoy chapters or find the characters bland. But they always spew complete nonsense, ignore the text and a lot of character development, claiming Starks are monsters, abominations and etc. while treating Daenerys like a sole protagonist of the story that can do no wrong (which is obviously wrong). Like others have said, they speak in a similar manner and never reply to counterarguments. But the weirdest thing to me is that they speak as if they are stating a fact and are George himself, instead of fans discussing and speculating about an upcoming book in a forum. It comes off more like trying to convince someone or themselves, instead of speculation and discussion. I recently found one resource https://samploon.com/free-essays/discrimination/, which describes such behavior of people. This can sometimes be called discrimination - when one's opinion is put above another.

I assume they are fans who were angry about how the show ended and want the books to go differently. It's very odd either way and I try not to reply to them too much.

I agree, there are just people who "know exactly what is better and more correct."

This applies to both the characters and the plot. This is where everything comes from.