Daenerys Targaryen is a better leader than Jon Snow.

[Sydney Mae]

On 12/21/2022 at 12:32 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Merry Chrismas.  May the Lord bless you and keep your family safe during this holiday season.  

Daenerys Targaryen is a better ruler and leader than Jon Snow.  We are all familiar with their leadership styles.  There is enough information for us to pass judgment on who the better leader is.  I will start with Jon Snow.

Jon Snow

Jon is far from the worst leader in A Song of Ice and Fire.  He is actually capable most of the time.  His biggest strength as a leader is his ability to teach.  Jon was able to teach the other less-fortunate cadets the proper use of the sword in combat.  Yes, he was an arrogant and entitled fool when he arrived.  A little man to man talk with a seasoned man helped open his eyes.  Many of the fans praise Jon for protecting the craven cadet, Samwell Tarly.  It is a well-earned praise.  Samwell would have died from fright if Jon had not stepped in and helped. 

I have established that Jon Snow is basically an average guy who has had good training in the fighting arts.  As a leader, he is usually capable of performing his job.  However, he has big problems beneath his exterior.  Many of the fans have already brought it up repeatedly.   Jon has a chip on his shoulders.  Push that chip and he goes ballistic.  He is guilty of attacking Ser Alliser Thorne, a man of higher rank and status.  He has anger management issues which culminated in the inappropriate way in which he judged two guilty men, Janos Slynt and Mance Rayder.  By every laws of the land, it should have been the deserter and traitor, Mance Rayder, who was executed.  Matters went downhill from there.  He sent the deserter and turncloak to bring his sister to him at the Wall.  This is an act of war against Roose and Ramsay Bolton.  The Night's Watch should never, and never has until now, make war against the people of The Seven Kingdoms. 

I served in the military for a significant part of my early adult life.  I have never been tested in the same way as Jon was with Arya.  I will say there are a lot of men who would do as Jon did.  They would forsake their duties, no matter how critical it is, to save their sisters.  But there are still more who would do their duties and accept that they cannot help their sisters.  For proof, you only have to look at those men who are in the business of rescuing and saving people and property.  Many men would rather be at home with their families during an emergency crisis but instead they stay at their posts and do their jobs.  I knew people who went to Kuwait while they had desperate families back home.  Parents battling cancer.  Wives struggling to raise handicapped children alone.  I could go on and on.  The point is, it is not unreasonable nor is it rare for people to do their jobs even when they have critical family concerns back home.  And those men who can't do this should never be in command.  It's fine for desk jockey to always sacrifice his duties for his families.  But that is not acceptable for a commander of an organization who has been tasked with the protection of the kingdom from an existential threat. 

Quorin Halfhand said something in book 2.  He said of Mance Rayder, he was the best and the worst of us.  He had trouble obeying.  Jon is very much like Mance Rayder.  In many ways, he is the ideal black brother.  But he is also the worst possible.  Jon is a man gifted with martial skills.  He is a smart young man who usually makes sound decisions.  I don't think his inability to judge and prioritize will matter much with the Wildlings.  To the Free Folk, whatever the strong man says is right is right.  Might makes right with the Wildlings.  Jon does not have to be fair, nor consistent.  Laws among the Wildlings are not as well-defined. 

Daenerys Targaryen

Princess Daenerys Targaryen began the story a scared and nervous young girl.  Forced to marry into an alien culture, she used her natural intelligence to thrive.  Courage, intelligence, and determination allowed her to adapt to the Dothraki culture.  She brought the dragons back from extinction.  She had the smarts and the courage to lead her khalasar beyond the Red Waste until they reached Vaes Tolorro.  This is nothing less than remarkable for a girl of her age.  She defeated the Undying in the Palace of Dust with the help of her dragon, Drogon.  Over and over, Daenerys has managed to use her intelligence and her cunning to outmaneuver her adversaries.  She has become a very good player of the game of thrones with a style all her own. 

Queen Daenerys has become the conqueror and the ruler of the slaver city of Meereen.  She knows what we know.  As humans, we have a responsibility to make laws and judge the guilty.  The Meereenese masters perpetrated the most heinous war crime in the entire saga so far.  This is many times more heinous than the Red Wedding in The Twins.  The masters crucified the children of their slaves and used them to decorate the road to the city.  This kind of crime cannot go unpunished.  To do so would be to deny justice to those children.  Allowing the Meereenese to bring forth the guilty is a modern concept of peers judging peers.  It is certainly preferable to the arbitrary trial of combat being practiced in Westeros.  She is facing an enemy who refuse to fight her troops in open combat.  And yet, she refused to execute her cup bearers.  This was a smart move.  Those children can be socialized and educated away from their slaver parents.  These children will be the foundation of a free Slaver's Bay. 

The situation in Meereen is very complicated.  Skahaz, Reznak, and Hizdahr are unreliable allies.  Daenerys has been warned to be careful by Quaithe.  Yet, she reacts with reason and caution.  Cersei would have had them all killed.  But a good leader knows that you have to trust people.  Everything carries a risk.  One person cannot manage a city of the size of Meereen.  Jorah's betrayal is revealed.  Daenerys wisely did not kill the man and instead sent him into exile.  Daenerys is a reflective, thoughtful person.  Which is a good quality for someone who has to make decisions.  She has some learning to do but her potential as a ruler is without limits.  I would choose her to rule Westeros.  

I like Dany.  Westeros will be lucky to have her on the throne.  She has a lot of great leadership moments.  Dany skillfully corrected Belwas during their first meeting. 

[Corvo the Crow]

8 hours ago, Sydney Mae said:

I like Dany.  Westeros will be lucky to have her on the throne.  She has a lot of great leadership moments.  Dany skillfully corrected Belwas during their first meeting. 

Indeed. Genociding a group of people in name of liberating slaves and then agreeing to treaties that are allowing the same liberated slaves to be enslaved again is great leadership. 

[Victor Newman]

16 hours ago, Sydney Mae said:

I like Dany.  Westeros will be lucky to have her on the throne.  She has a lot of great leadership moments.  Dany skillfully corrected Belwas during their first meeting. 

She's great.  That was deftly handled.  Correct Belwas and stop him from disrespecting the Dothraki.  But build up his self-esteem again and avoid losing his loyalty.  Very nicely done. 

[The Commentator]

On 12/21/2022 at 12:32 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Merry Chrismas.  May the Lord bless you and keep your family safe during this holiday season.  

Daenerys Targaryen is a better ruler and leader than Jon Snow.  We are all familiar with their leadership styles.  There is enough information for us to pass judgment on who the better leader is.  I will start with Jon Snow.

Jon Snow

Jon is far from the worst leader in A Song of Ice and Fire.  He is actually capable most of the time.  His biggest strength as a leader is his ability to teach.  Jon was able to teach the other less-fortunate cadets the proper use of the sword in combat.  Yes, he was an arrogant and entitled fool when he arrived.  A little man to man talk with a seasoned man helped open his eyes.  Many of the fans praise Jon for protecting the craven cadet, Samwell Tarly.  It is a well-earned praise.  Samwell would have died from fright if Jon had not stepped in and helped. 

I have established that Jon Snow is basically an average guy who has had good training in the fighting arts.  As a leader, he is usually capable of performing his job.  However, he has big problems beneath his exterior.  Many of the fans have already brought it up repeatedly.   Jon has a chip on his shoulders.  Push that chip and he goes ballistic.  He is guilty of attacking Ser Alliser Thorne, a man of higher rank and status.  He has anger management issues which culminated in the inappropriate way in which he judged two guilty men, Janos Slynt and Mance Rayder.  By every laws of the land, it should have been the deserter and traitor, Mance Rayder, who was executed.  Matters went downhill from there.  He sent the deserter and turncloak to bring his sister to him at the Wall.  This is an act of war against Roose and Ramsay Bolton.  The Night's Watch should never, and never has until now, make war against the people of The Seven Kingdoms. 

I served in the military for a significant part of my early adult life.  I have never been tested in the same way as Jon was with Arya.  I will say there are a lot of men who would do as Jon did.  They would forsake their duties, no matter how critical it is, to save their sisters.  But there are still more who would do their duties and accept that they cannot help their sisters.  For proof, you only have to look at those men who are in the business of rescuing and saving people and property.  Many men would rather be at home with their families during an emergency crisis but instead they stay at their posts and do their jobs.  I knew people who went to Kuwait while they had desperate families back home.  Parents battling cancer.  Wives struggling to raise handicapped children alone.  I could go on and on.  The point is, it is not unreasonable nor is it rare for people to do their jobs even when they have critical family concerns back home.  And those men who can't do this should never be in command.  It's fine for desk jockey to always sacrifice his duties for his families.  But that is not acceptable for a commander of an organization who has been tasked with the protection of the kingdom from an existential threat. 

Quorin Halfhand said something in book 2.  He said of Mance Rayder, he was the best and the worst of us.  He had trouble obeying.  Jon is very much like Mance Rayder.  In many ways, he is the ideal black brother.  But he is also the worst possible.  Jon is a man gifted with martial skills.  He is a smart young man who usually makes sound decisions.  I don't think his inability to judge and prioritize will matter much with the Wildlings.  To the Free Folk, whatever the strong man says is right is right.  Might makes right with the Wildlings.  Jon does not have to be fair, nor consistent.  Laws among the Wildlings are not as well-defined. 

Daenerys Targaryen

Princess Daenerys Targaryen began the story a scared and nervous young girl.  Forced to marry into an alien culture, she used her natural intelligence to thrive.  Courage, intelligence, and determination allowed her to adapt to the Dothraki culture.  She brought the dragons back from extinction.  She had the smarts and the courage to lead her khalasar beyond the Red Waste until they reached Vaes Tolorro.  This is nothing less than remarkable for a girl of her age.  She defeated the Undying in the Palace of Dust with the help of her dragon, Drogon.  Over and over, Daenerys has managed to use her intelligence and her cunning to outmaneuver her adversaries.  She has become a very good player of the game of thrones with a style all her own. 

Queen Daenerys has become the conqueror and the ruler of the slaver city of Meereen.  She knows what we know.  As humans, we have a responsibility to make laws and judge the guilty.  The Meereenese masters perpetrated the most heinous war crime in the entire saga so far.  This is many times more heinous than the Red Wedding in The Twins.  The masters crucified the children of their slaves and used them to decorate the road to the city.  This kind of crime cannot go unpunished.  To do so would be to deny justice to those children.  Allowing the Meereenese to bring forth the guilty is a modern concept of peers judging peers.  It is certainly preferable to the arbitrary trial of combat being practiced in Westeros.  She is facing an enemy who refuse to fight her troops in open combat.  And yet, she refused to execute her cup bearers.  This was a smart move.  Those children can be socialized and educated away from their slaver parents.  These children will be the foundation of a free Slaver's Bay. 

The situation in Meereen is very complicated.  Skahaz, Reznak, and Hizdahr are unreliable allies.  Daenerys has been warned to be careful by Quaithe.  Yet, she reacts with reason and caution.  Cersei would have had them all killed.  But a good leader knows that you have to trust people.  Everything carries a risk.  One person cannot manage a city of the size of Meereen.  Jorah's betrayal is revealed.  Daenerys wisely did not kill the man and instead sent him into exile.  Daenerys is a reflective, thoughtful person.  Which is a good quality for someone who has to make decisions.  She has some learning to do but her potential as a ruler is without limits.  I would choose her to rule Westeros.  

Dany is very mature for a girl who would have recently gotten her driver’s license in our time.  Obviously she is smarter than Robb and Jon. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by The Commentator

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

On 1/17/2023 at 3:08 PM, The Commentator said:

Dany is very mature for a girl who would have recently gotten her driver’s license in our time.  Obviously she is smarter than Robb and Jon. 

The Baratheon boys had their chance but failed miserably.  The Lannisters also failed the people.  Jon failed at the wall.  Westeros will need a strong leader like Dany to bring order and peace.  

[Loose Bolt]

12 hours ago, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes said:

Westeros will need a strong leader like Dany to bring order and peace

IMHO Dany has not really been successful in bringing order and peace to Slaver's Bay. Or (Ex?) Slave cities are neither very orderly nor peaceful. And if Dany leaves with her dragons those cities almost certainly very soon would start their old business of being major centers of slave trade.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

On 1/15/2023 at 9:05 PM, Sydney Mae said:

I like Dany.  Westeros will be lucky to have her on the throne.  She has a lot of great leadership moments.  Dany skillfully corrected Belwas during their first meeting. 

 

On 1/16/2023 at 2:00 PM, Victor Newman said:

She's great.  That was deftly handled.  Correct Belwas and stop him from disrespecting the Dothraki.  But build up his self-esteem again and avoid losing his loyalty.  Very nicely done. 

Dany is a great communicator and naturally understood the need to preserve the big man's dignity.  Great leaders have this ability.  Contrast this with Jon Snow, who failed at the Wall because he sucked at communication and motivation. 

[BlackLightning]

They are both good leaders but in different ways.

In fact, they compliment each other.

For example: Jon - although he has grown a lot since the first book - is still a bit entitled as he neither deigns it necessary to communicate with his subordinates nor does he make any effort to inspire and motivate loyalty and healthy ambition. Daenerys, however, is absolutely exceptional at that. On the other hand, Daenerys is very indecisive, has tunnel vision, is a bit too easily-distracted and lacks a certain degree of ruthlessness that is necessary for leading such a large group of people in a stressful environment...unlike Jon.

Dany however is in a completely different weight class than Jon. Not to say that Jon's obstacles and enemies are inconsequential but Dany is squaring off against half of the Essosi nobility AND she has the additional challenge of controlling a plague and rebuilding a broken economy.

Edited February 12, 2023 by BlackLightning

[PetiteSir]

George has mentioned on multiple occasions that good people aren't necessarily good rulers. Although Jon might be the prophesied one that will handle the existential crises of ASOIAF, he probably won't become the King. If he does I think his ruling would be showed as unsuccessful. He's got a good heart, which to George, probably means he wouldn't be a great King. Dany on the other hand is a little more ruthless and pragmatic, which is possibly setting her up to be the "better" ruler, especially after she learns all of her lessons in Essos.

[James West]

9 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

the additional challenge of controlling a plague and rebuilding a broken economy.

Which is the kind of experience you want in a ruler who will have to rebuild at the end of the long night.  I would like to see her build a new empire of the dawn to begin the cycle again.  Dany will be great.  

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

3 hours ago, James West said:

Which is the kind of experience you want in a ruler who will have to rebuild at the end of the long night.  I would like to see her build a new empire of the dawn to begin the cycle again.  Dany will be great.  

I would actually hate her beginning the cycle again. 

[Craving Peaches]

12 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

she has the additional challenge of controlling a plague and rebuilding a broken economy.

She's not really succeeding at this additional challenge though. I can forgive her for the broken economy thing, since everyone in the region is embargoing her due to ideological reasons, but she's completely failed to control the dysentery outbreak.

Spoiler

People are willing to sortie with Barristan because they are that desperate to get away from the plague in Meereen.

 

[Kierria]

On 12/31/2022 at 1:10 PM, Khal Rhaego Targaryen said:

jon became lord commander through trickery. No one was going to vote for jon. Nobody would choose him because jon doesn't have the qualities of a leader. he was killed by his own men because he put his personal and selfish interests above the interests of the all. jon is a swordsman and the only thing he is good for is being on the battlefield with his sword being guided by a true leader like Dany.

Samwell's trickery.  Jon is not leader material.  He would have been a good ranger as long as his duties never conflict with Stark interests.  But Jon should never be entrusted with leading and ruling.  Whereas Daenerys is a very talented young leader who continues to sharpen her skills.  

[Darth Sidious]

On 12/21/2022 at 12:32 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Merry Chrismas.  May the Lord bless you and keep your family safe during this holiday season.  

Daenerys Targaryen is a better ruler and leader than Jon Snow.  We are all familiar with their leadership styles.  There is enough information for us to pass judgment on who the better leader is.  I will start with Jon Snow.

Jon Snow

Jon is far from the worst leader in A Song of Ice and Fire.  He is actually capable most of the time.  His biggest strength as a leader is his ability to teach.  Jon was able to teach the other less-fortunate cadets the proper use of the sword in combat.  Yes, he was an arrogant and entitled fool when he arrived.  A little man to man talk with a seasoned man helped open his eyes.  Many of the fans praise Jon for protecting the craven cadet, Samwell Tarly.  It is a well-earned praise.  Samwell would have died from fright if Jon had not stepped in and helped. 

I have established that Jon Snow is basically an average guy who has had good training in the fighting arts.  As a leader, he is usually capable of performing his job.  However, he has big problems beneath his exterior.  Many of the fans have already brought it up repeatedly.   Jon has a chip on his shoulders.  Push that chip and he goes ballistic.  He is guilty of attacking Ser Alliser Thorne, a man of higher rank and status.  He has anger management issues which culminated in the inappropriate way in which he judged two guilty men, Janos Slynt and Mance Rayder.  By every laws of the land, it should have been the deserter and traitor, Mance Rayder, who was executed.  Matters went downhill from there.  He sent the deserter and turncloak to bring his sister to him at the Wall.  This is an act of war against Roose and Ramsay Bolton.  The Night's Watch should never, and never has until now, make war against the people of The Seven Kingdoms. 

I served in the military for a significant part of my early adult life.  I have never been tested in the same way as Jon was with Arya.  I will say there are a lot of men who would do as Jon did.  They would forsake their duties, no matter how critical it is, to save their sisters.  But there are still more who would do their duties and accept that they cannot help their sisters.  For proof, you only have to look at those men who are in the business of rescuing and saving people and property.  Many men would rather be at home with their families during an emergency crisis but instead they stay at their posts and do their jobs.  I knew people who went to Kuwait while they had desperate families back home.  Parents battling cancer.  Wives struggling to raise handicapped children alone.  I could go on and on.  The point is, it is not unreasonable nor is it rare for people to do their jobs even when they have critical family concerns back home.  And those men who can't do this should never be in command.  It's fine for desk jockey to always sacrifice his duties for his families.  But that is not acceptable for a commander of an organization who has been tasked with the protection of the kingdom from an existential threat. 

Quorin Halfhand said something in book 2.  He said of Mance Rayder, he was the best and the worst of us.  He had trouble obeying.  Jon is very much like Mance Rayder.  In many ways, he is the ideal black brother.  But he is also the worst possible.  Jon is a man gifted with martial skills.  He is a smart young man who usually makes sound decisions.  I don't think his inability to judge and prioritize will matter much with the Wildlings.  To the Free Folk, whatever the strong man says is right is right.  Might makes right with the Wildlings.  Jon does not have to be fair, nor consistent.  Laws among the Wildlings are not as well-defined. 

Daenerys Targaryen

Princess Daenerys Targaryen began the story a scared and nervous young girl.  Forced to marry into an alien culture, she used her natural intelligence to thrive.  Courage, intelligence, and determination allowed her to adapt to the Dothraki culture.  She brought the dragons back from extinction.  She had the smarts and the courage to lead her khalasar beyond the Red Waste until they reached Vaes Tolorro.  This is nothing less than remarkable for a girl of her age.  She defeated the Undying in the Palace of Dust with the help of her dragon, Drogon.  Over and over, Daenerys has managed to use her intelligence and her cunning to outmaneuver her adversaries.  She has become a very good player of the game of thrones with a style all her own. 

Queen Daenerys has become the conqueror and the ruler of the slaver city of Meereen.  She knows what we know.  As humans, we have a responsibility to make laws and judge the guilty.  The Meereenese masters perpetrated the most heinous war crime in the entire saga so far.  This is many times more heinous than the Red Wedding in The Twins.  The masters crucified the children of their slaves and used them to decorate the road to the city.  This kind of crime cannot go unpunished.  To do so would be to deny justice to those children.  Allowing the Meereenese to bring forth the guilty is a modern concept of peers judging peers.  It is certainly preferable to the arbitrary trial of combat being practiced in Westeros.  She is facing an enemy who refuse to fight her troops in open combat.  And yet, she refused to execute her cup bearers.  This was a smart move.  Those children can be socialized and educated away from their slaver parents.  These children will be the foundation of a free Slaver's Bay. 

The situation in Meereen is very complicated.  Skahaz, Reznak, and Hizdahr are unreliable allies.  Daenerys has been warned to be careful by Quaithe.  Yet, she reacts with reason and caution.  Cersei would have had them all killed.  But a good leader knows that you have to trust people.  Everything carries a risk.  One person cannot manage a city of the size of Meereen.  Jorah's betrayal is revealed.  Daenerys wisely did not kill the man and instead sent him into exile.  Daenerys is a reflective, thoughtful person.  Which is a good quality for someone who has to make decisions.  She has some learning to do but her potential as a ruler is without limits.  I would choose her to rule Westeros.  

Jorah’s exile was a fine decision. Killing the man and it’s too late for amends. She’s a good ruler already. 

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

14 minutes ago, Darth Sidious said:

Jorah’s exile was a fine decision. Killing the man and it’s too late for amends. She’s a good ruler already. 

She is very clearly a poor ruler. The 3 cities she rules are in chaos and on the decline fast, specifically due to her actions. I’m not saying she can’t become a good ruler but she has yet to show any actual results other than revolt and chaos.

[SeanF]

3 hours ago, Lady Stonehearts Simp said:

She is very clearly a poor ruler. The 3 cities she rules are in chaos and on the decline fast, specifically due to her actions. I’m not saying she can’t become a good ruler but she has yet to show any actual results other than revolt and chaos.

She was nowhere near as ruthless towards the slave masters and their supporters as she had to be.

There's still time to put that right.

[astarkchoice]

Both have had serious issues resolving conflicts (wildlings vs Nw) and (slavers vs former slaves) 

Danys mistakes  when she makes them have been on a bigger scale but so has everything shes done so far ! Shes gotten by as she has much better close protection than jon snow had

Dany is very good at communicating and seeks outside council , her looks and charm.of course help here ...whereas jon is insular and cold. Flipside jon is much better at dealing with minutae practical details.

Danys biggest mistskes if we lay them out are : trusting the magi, trusting the warlocks, not leaving a stable giverment in astopor , the random punishment in mereen, refusual to meet harpy campaign with brutality , mereen economy and the biggest one is closing  the pits as she doesnt like them!

Now breaking them down dany was distraught, preganant and in labour and no position to not trust a woman shed 'saved'

The warlocks was just sheer hubris but the facinatiin can be understood..for all the risk thw sights she saw may save her (and the world) the shade of evening may have as the warlock suggested uncorked some.of her latent abilities thus allowing dragon bonding to go further

Astopor:often thrown at dany here but its a recently freed slalve population and a young girl whos known only feudalism and the various councils of the free cities...given the enormous scale of building a  new goverment and society from scratch this cant be held agaisnst her too harshly

Killing equal number of randomly selected nobles in mereen was stupid but lstting the harpies kill unawnsered was too..she knows its the masters so THEN should have killed them randomly in larger numbers for each attack onnher own.

The mereenish economy we see if already failing but on her approach the nobles burn farmland for miles around to make it worse  , dany daftly.ended the pits despite their huge  cultural, reigious  and economic hold onnthe city. Shes struggling to get the slaves and slavers to now exchange money for goods/services. If the pits stayed open its hard to see the harpy campaign starting at all or being remotely as effective

Jon by contrast has poor communication and weak political instincts, he rejects mels.smart advice to keep a entourage around so hes safe nor doe he run shit past his tower commanders before annoinent of attac

[astarkchoice]

Edit

Edited May 1, 2023 by astarkchoice

[SeanF]

31 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Both have had serious issues resolving conflicts (wildlings vs Nw) and (slavers vs former slaves) 

Danys mistakes  when she makes them have been on a bigger scale but so has everything shes done so far ! Shes gotten by as she has much better close protection than jon snow had

Dany is very good at communicating and seeks outside council , her looks and charm.of course help here ...whereas jon is insular and cold. Flipside jon is much better at dealing with minutae practical details.

Danys biggest mistskes if we lay them out are : trusting the magi, trusting the warlocks, not leaving a stable giverment in astopor , the random punishment in mereen, refusual to meet harpy campaign with brutality , mereen economy and the biggest one is closing  the pits as she doesnt like them!

Now breaking them down dany was distraught, preganant and in labour and no position to not trust a woman shed 'saved'

The warlocks was just sheer hubris but the facinatiin can be understood..for all the risk thw sights she saw may save her (and the world) the shade of evening may have as the warlock suggested uncorked some.of her latent abilities thus allowing dragon bonding to go further

Astopor:often thrown at dany here but its a recently freed slalve population and a young girl whos known only feudalism and the various councils of the free cities...given the enormous scale of building a  new goverment and society from scratch this cant be held agaisnst her too harshly

Killing equal number of randomly selected nobles in mereen was stupid but lstting the harpies kill unawnsered was too..she knows its the masters so THEN should have killed them randomly in larger numbers for each attack onnher own.

The mereenish economy we see if already failing but on her approach the nobles burn farmland for miles around to make it worse  , dany daftly.ended the pits despite their huge  cultural, reigious  and economic hold onnthe city. Shes struggling to get the slaves and slavers to now exchange money for goods/services. If the pits stayed open its hard to see the harpy campaign starting at all or being remotely as effective

Jon by contrast has poor communication and weak political instincts, he rejects mels.smart advice to keep a entourage around so hes safe nor doe he run shit past his tower commanders before annoinent of attac

IMHO, the Meereenese economy was getting pretty good for the freedmen, who were entering guilds, achieving success as weavers and artisans, and joining the army.  Journeymen can’t even seek admission to guilds, unless they are prospering.

The bellyaching comes from the former masters, who lost their slaves without compensation, and who were in many cases, plundered by the slaves.

Edited May 1, 2023 by SeanF

[astarkchoice]

2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

IMHO, the Meereenese economy was getting pretty good for the freedmen, who were entering guilds, achieving success as weavers and artisans, and joining the army.

The bellyaching comes from the former masters, who lost their slaves without compensation, and who were in many cases, plundered by the slaves.

Id say its also the pitfighters

Minus them the harpies would have no muscle and the revenue brought in from the fights was a pillar of the citys economy (damn on reflection they would be worth watching given the sheer.variety of fighters/cultures  in planetos!!!) also given the pits have a religious function it would have smoothed her takeover too (esp as i reckon the green grace is the harpy)