Heresy 245 The Alpha and the Omega and what lies between

[alienarea]

Just saying hi.

Nothing new under the sun.

Apparently, GRRM joined the writers strike.

Twelve years ago.

[Yaya]

hi all - just hanging out. 
hello @alienarea !

nothing new for me either.

i just re-listened to the "Euron with the horn" video snip Elio posted to the tube & posted a blurb out about that in that associated thread.

would anyone mind if i tossed a couple ideas out for topic discussion in here?   
you all can  y or n  if it's been beaten enough.

truly, i like that you all keep the "dump-truck full of money" crap out of the conversation /to a minimum here in heresy; i haven't watched the show since season two.  as a result i find some people extrapolate the weirdest theories as a result of the brain fusion they get between the books & the show.

 

[Melifeather]

2 hours ago, Yaya said:

hi all - just hanging out. 
hello @alienarea !

nothing new for me either.

i just re-listened to the "Euron with the horn" video snip Elio posted to the tube & posted a blurb out about that in that associated thread.

would anyone mind if i tossed a couple ideas out for topic discussion in here?   
you all can  y or n  if it's been beaten enough.

truly, i like that you all keep the "dump-truck full of money" crap out of the conversation /to a minimum here in heresy; i haven't watched the show since season two.  as a result i find some people extrapolate the weirdest theories as a result of the brain fusion they get between the books & the show.

 

Lets hear it!

[Black Crow]

toss away 

[Yaya]

i've searched the threads, i can't read/re-read all the search results    
i'm feeling like this is a "big small question"  so please - yay or nay away:

the Citadel - what was it originally?
the whole rod/ring/mask business - what is the point?  that really puzzles me.
even the concept of the Maester's chain - so many things to read into that.

is this what Jaqen is really going for, one or three of these objects?
we don't read of Maesters actually using (any of) these objects for anything & if they aren't "used" what is the purpose of each of these objects?
why would all three objects be received/rewarded at once, wouldn't it be more like one earns all three objects individually then one is awarded something bigger/cumulatively?
(& especially now i think on these object things after watching the funeral of Queen Elizabeth II & the new King's & Queen's coronation, objects such as these are really interesting)

is it possible the Alchemists &/or Shadowbinders were once part of a Meastership 'degree' & hence these objects?
(all the guilds under one roof as maybe hinted at in Bravvos)

one of my thoughts is that a representatives of each of these "industries" were of the companions of the Last Hero in that legend. 
plus, it bothers me that Quaithe always wears a mask.
and more powerfully:  that potentially a combination of action could happen for magic:
Alchemist ace + Blacksmith guild expert + Higher Mystery Valyrian Steel Maester = maker of Valyrian/Dragonsteel Blades

or something along those lines

[Melifeather]

A Game of Thrones - Jon V

"That's stupid," Jon said. He took a deep breath to gather his thoughts. "I remember once I asked Maester Luwin why he wore a chain around his throat."

Maester Aemon touched his own collar lightly, his bony, wrinkled finger stroking the heavy metal links. "Go on."

"He told me that a maester's collar is made of chain to remind him that he is sworn to serve," Jon said, remembering. "I asked why each link was a different metal. A silver chain would look much finer with his grey robes, I said. Maester Luwin laughed. A maester forges his chain with study, he told me. The different metals are each a different kind of learning, gold for the study of money and accounts, silver for healing, iron for warcraft. And he said there were other meanings as well. The collar is supposed to remind a maester of the realm he serves, isn't that so? Lords are gold and knights steel, but two links can't make a chain. You also need silver and iron and lead, tin and copper and bronze and all the rest, and those are farmers and smiths and merchants and the like. A chain needs all sorts of metals, and a land needs all sorts of people."

Maester Aemon smiled. "And so?"

[Melifeather]

The Reach: Oldtown

The origin of the Citadel is disputed, but House Hightower is generally considered to have played an integral role in its foundation. Most accounts on the Citadel's origins credit its foundation to Prince Peremore the Twisted, the second son of King Uthor of the High Tower. The curious Peremore invited numerous scholars, including wise men, teachers, priests, healers, singers, wizards, alchemists, and sorcerors, to Oldtown. After Peremore's death, his brother, King Urrigon, granted land alongside the Honeywine to "Peremore's pets", who developed the tract into the maesters' Citadel. House Hightower continues to be a strong patron of learning.

A Feast for Crows Appendix

House Hightower

The Hightowers of Oldtown are among the oldest and proudest of the Great Houses of Westeros, tracing their descent back to the First Men. Once kings, they have ruled Oldtown and its environs since the Dawn of Days, welcoming the Andals rather than resisting them, and later bending the knee to the Kings of the Reach and giving up their crowns whilst retaining all their ancient privileges. Though powerful and immensely wealthy, the Lords of the High Tower have traditionally preferred trade to battle, and have seldom played a large part in the wars of Westeros. The Hightowers were instrumental in the founding of the Citadel and continue to protect it to this day. Subtle and sophisticated, they have always been great patrons of learning and the Faith, and it is said that certain of them have also dabbled in alchemy, necromancy, and other sorcerous arts.

 

[alienarea]

The Citadel is a Netflix series featuring King Robb. I quit after three episodes.

[Frey family reunion]

12 hours ago, alienarea said:

The Citadel is a Netflix series featuring King Robb. I quit after three episodes.

Yea, it was surprisingly bad.  

[alienarea]

Currently thinking of Westeros and Essos as theme parks like Westworld, with the army of the dead being bots.

[alienarea]

Not really related to Heresy - or is it?

Looks like a Game of Thrones is being played in Russia and Putin is the mad king.

[Precioushobbits]

6 hours ago, alienarea said:

Not really related to Heresy - or is it?

Looks like a Game of Thrones is being played in Russia and Putin is the mad king.

Haha yeah Yevgeny Prigozhin and Wagner make me think of a lot of the charismatic black hearted killers in ASOFAI. 

[LynnS]

We're still waiting on a book, I see.  June has been a strange month with all the forest fires in Quebec.  I'm close to the Quebec border and have seen a few orange moons and fucsia sunrises with all the smoke blanketing the town.   It looks almost like a fog most days and you can smell wood smoke.  I thought we would get some relief with the rain, but it's persistent.  The sky is white today.  Have to stay in most days due to eye irritation.  

[Back in Black-Snow]

On 6/28/2023 at 8:15 PM, LynnS said:

We're still waiting on a book, I see.  June has been a strange month with all the forest fires in Quebec.  I'm close to the Quebec border and have seen a few orange moons and fucsia sunrises with all the smoke blanketing the town.   It looks almost like a fog most days and you can smell wood smoke.  I thought we would get some relief with the rain, but it's persistent.  The sky is white today.  Have to stay in most days due to eye irritation.  

We have been dealing with the smoke here in Indiana too. And yesterday we had a devastating thunderstorm come thru. Most are without power and there's at least one tree on a house almost every block.

[Melifeather]

On 6/28/2023 at 7:15 PM, LynnS said:

We're still waiting on a book, I see.  June has been a strange month with all the forest fires in Quebec.  I'm close to the Quebec border and have seen a few orange moons and fucsia sunrises with all the smoke blanketing the town.   It looks almost like a fog most days and you can smell wood smoke.  I thought we would get some relief with the rain, but it's persistent.  The sky is white today.  Have to stay in most days due to eye irritation.  

Yes, we have had many days with Canadian wild fire smoke affecting air quality in Minnesota too. These days I’m checking for air quality alerts when I’m looking at the weather forecast for the day before heading outside.

[LynnS]

On 6/30/2023 at 8:03 AM, Back in Black-Snow said:

We have been dealing with the smoke here in Indiana too. And yesterday we had a devastating thunderstorm come thru. Most are without power and there's at least one tree on a house almost every block.

Yikes!  We had one like that last year.  Trees down everywhere, including across my neighbours roof.  We didn't have power, water or communications of any kind for a week.  I lost everything in my fridge and freezer,  Luckily some of the neighbours had small generators; so I was able to keep my prescriptions refrigerated and get a cup of coffee in the morning.  

On 7/3/2023 at 9:49 AM, Melifeather said:

Yes, we have had many days with Canadian wild fire smoke affecting air quality in Minnesota too. These days I’m checking for air quality alerts when I’m looking at the weather forecast for the day before heading outside.

We've have a lot of rain in the last few days.  Seems to be helping.  The sky is more normal.  How is your garden this year?  Did you try anything new?

[alienarea]

Maybe we should write TWoW? Looks like we are all a bit bored.

Maybe each of us could pick a character, but not the obvious ones.

I would pick Sansa, because I don't like her at all, and make her a scheming, whoring Queen of the North. Like Cersei, but a Stark.

 

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

1 hour ago, alienarea said:

Maybe we should write TWoW? Looks like we are all a bit bored.

Maybe each of us could pick a character, but not the obvious ones.

I would pick Sansa, because I don't like her at all, and make her a scheming, whoring Queen of the North. Like Cersei, but a Stark.

 

I'm gonna have to fight you over her then  I can't stand by whilst my babygirl gets ruined.

[LynnS]

8 hours ago, alienarea said:

Maybe we should write TWoW? Looks like we are all a bit bored.

I think that's been done in a thousand different ways.    How much more can you squeeze out of it?   

Anyway, these recent forest fires and their effects on weather reminds me of the Year without a Sun in 536 AD.  I think this must be where GRRM gets some ideas about the Long Night.  I don't think the original event has to be a cosmic collision especially since vulcanism is a big thing in the Essos historical record. 

I question why the Doom of Valyria didn't have a similar effect.  GRRM says men keep making the same mistakes.  So what was the original mistake?  Does it have something to do with Asshai?  How was the land so poisoned?  There is a metaphysical explanation, no doubt.

I don't think there were ever two moons orbiting Planetos at one time either.  I think there is a physical moon and a metaphysical moon.  By that I mean that the moon can be percieved as the personification of someone or something.  For example, Bran appears as the moon to Jon in a wolf dream. chasing him and calling out to him.  You could say this is a mask or second moon.  This same moon appears to have goosebumps in reaction to the cold,  in another passage.

The moon also appears as a sign or portent at different times.  For example, the blood bruised eye that Tyrion mistakes for the sun setting in the East; with its twin on the sea seems so obviously about Euron.   Surely, the reason why Benerro is so exercised about it.  He and Moqorro both say Euron is a threat to Dany and call him the Dark Eye.

So Jiqqui's story about the moon being an egg that cracked open when it flew too close to the sun;  sounds very close to Dany walking into Drogo's funeral pyre and the eggs hatching.  So the second metaphysical moon appears as an egg that cracks open; perhaps to someone with a third eye.  The actual moon itself doesn't have a crack across its face.  I think it's a story about the original mother of dragons.

Like everyone; I'm still wondering about the House with the Red Door.    Did Daeron the Dreamer leave Westeros to live in Lys at one point?  I wonder if this is the House with the Red Door.  Dragonstone has red doors. So,  I wonder if this is a Targ thing.  He also had a daughter which could explain the room with animal carvings in the roof beams.  And I go back to Dany's scent memory of home of perfumes and spices. 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by LynnS

[LynnS]

Some additional thoughts/questions about the house with the red door.  We know it's an actual place and also that the red door itself has some kind of significance or meaning, according to GRRM.  What could that be?  Dany has a childhood memory of the red door but the red door also shows up in her dragon dream.  Doors and portals have significance in this story - the doors on the House of Black and White, the Black Gate, the doors in the House of Undying, for example.  Does the Red Door fall into this category?  Does is show up in dreams of other dragon dreamers?  Is that why Dragonstone has red doors or why Maester Aemon says he remembers the colour red?