Covid 48： The Long March

[Zorral]

Partner took 50 people, including me, to New Orleans and totally anti-vax Acadiana.  Not one of us got sick. With anything. We were together from AM lobby call, to buses, to 3- 5 events a day, or this all day party. All of us vaxxed to the max, and where appropriate masked.  But it being Louisiana, despite winter, and that very cold day of Friday when most of the country was way below zero and Lafayette was in the 40's, we managed loads of ventilation, and had an all day dance and eat party.  Not one of us got sick.  Though when the regular customers of the place began arriving in the late afternoon, starting the weekend, their little kids, seeing us going to the restrooms and so on, though we were aliens from space or something.  We wore our masks to get through the crowds, naturally, but not in our vast, private party space.

As brilliant, lovely beloved Dr. Song says, "The mask is the vaccine, the place where we start."

 

[mcbigski]

15 hours ago, Week said:

Proud of you that you're learning. You didn't even mention ivermectin which has been proven to be ineffective and dangerous in large doses for COVID-19 (always and forever). Baby steps.

You're right.  The population of Uttar Pradesh is wrong, but they're white supremicists anyway.

Not sure why you're so hot and horny for defending pharmaceutical profits over general health, but you're obviously committed to it.  

TBH I hope it's because you're highly invested in that industry instead of because you've just swallowed what the independent, not funded at all by pharma advertising, media says.

[Raja]

24 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

 The population of Uttar Pradesh is wrong

Indeed. If there is one state that is guranteed to be wrong in anything that requires common sense, it would be UP.

'General health', in the face of a pandemic and an infectious disease. Good luck with that. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Raja

[Heartofice]

It’s been a while since I have been hearing people spout Ivermectin bollocks , I assumed everyone had accepted they were wrong and went away. 
 

The Uttar Pradesh stuff is also mostly entirely disproven as any kind of evidence for Ivermectin. As far as I recall, that state has a pretty high case fatality rate, but mostly it did ok case wise due to high levels of testing and isolation, but not much better than other states.
 

If basically ALL of the evidence suggest Ivermectin is ineffective against anything other than worms then maybe it’s worth just keeping quiet about it 

[Impmk2]

Oh jesus christ not ivermectin.

I'm sure thats being suppressed by big pharma so they can push common generic drugs like dexamethasone for severe covid. What a fantastic conspiracy.

[Fragile Bird]

Reports popped up on my phone that health officials here in the province of Ontario (more than a third of Canada’s population) have stated that wastewater testing in Ottawa has shown spiking amounts of XBB.1.5 and they’re preparing for a jump in Covid cases throughout the province.

This version of Omicron, which I gather is being called “the Kraken”, has been spiking across the US so we expect the same to happen here. Apparently it represented less than 1% of cases at the end of December and 22% by the end of January. Wastewater sampling showed it’s close to 50% of the samples.

I don’t think anyone expects the kinds of numbers we’ve seen in the past but officials are asking people to use common sense. Hospital workers are absolutely burned out and even a small increase in patients will be stressful. Nobody is masking like before but I always mask while in stores. I’d guess that fewer than 20% of people are masked. The warning health officials are giving is “the pandemic’s not over”.

[Zorral]

For Older Americans, the Pandemic Is Not Over
Seniors are increasingly left to protect themselves as the rest of the country abandons precautions: “Americans do not agree about the duty to protect others.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/11/health/covid-pandemic-seniors.html

Quote

 

.... Should individuals, institutions, businesses and governments maintain strategies, like masking, that help protect everyone but particularly benefit the more vulnerable?

“Do we distribute them among the whole population?” Dr. Raifman asked of those measures. “Or do we forgo that, and let the chips fall where they may?”

Nancy Berlinger, a bioethicist and research scholar at the Hastings Center, made a similar point: “The foundational questions about ethics are about what we owe others, not just ourselves, not just our circle of family and friends.”

Three years in, the societal answer seems clear: With mask and vaccination mandates mostly ended, testing centers and vaccination clinics closed and the federal public health emergency scheduled to expire in May, older adults are on their own.

“Americans do not agree about the duty to protect others, whether it’s from a virus or gun violence,” Dr. Berlinger said. ....

 

 

[Heartofice]

3 minutes ago, Zorral said:

For Older Americans, the Pandemic Is Not Over
Seniors are increasingly left to protect themselves as the rest of the country abandons precautions: “Americans do not agree about the duty to protect others.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/11/health/covid-pandemic-seniors.html

 

If only there has been some sort of mass vaccination program with regular boosters! Why are we doing NOTHING?!

[Week]

13 hours ago, mcbigski said:

You're right.  The population of Uttar Pradesh is wrong, but they're white supremicists anyway.

Not sure why you're so hot and horny for defending pharmaceutical profits over general health, but you're obviously committed to it.  

TBH I hope it's because you're highly invested in that industry instead of because you've just swallowed what the independent, not funded at all by pharma advertising, media says.

I'd rather pharma companies profit from an effective solution (vaccines) rather than hucksters and snake oil salesmen selling ineffective or harmful remedies. Please share what research or evidence that gives you the confidence to spout such utter ignorance. I'm curious to see what size bottle it comes in.

[Week]

@mcbigski

 

Bad data?

[mcbigski]

54 minutes ago, Week said:

@mcbigski

 

Bad data?

Going through the study abstract it seemed to say that boosters haven't been effective among the elderly and other at risk populations, so the recommendation is more boosters.  (Under the "Interpretation" heading.)  I don't think I'm misreading that but if a study about the effectiveness of boosters is already assuming that boosters are effective, it's like masturbation without needing a kleenex.

Isn't the UK no longer recommending mRNA shots for folks under 50 or so?  Or maybe just for kids?  I don't remember tbh but they've definitely walked back from the everyone gets a shot idea.

As for the other link with the pretty picture, that's not data, that's a graph.  If unvaccinated people really are dying at a rate by eyeball of 6 to 10 times more, then that's a problem that solves itself in the long run if you just let people make their own choices.  

Read something today that heart attacks were up about 30% in adults under 50 or so.  That doesn't jibe with my experience.  Sure there have been a few (mostly guys) folks who died of sudden heart problems over the last 20 years (ie when I've been 30-50 myself and thus my peers as well) but they were mostly either overweight or had previously known heart conditions.  130% of basically zero is still basically zero, and yet a lot more folks than that seem to be dropping dead.

 

[Which Tyler]

5 hours ago, mcbigski said:

Isn't the UK no longer recommending mRNA shots for folks under 50 or so?  Or maybe just for kids?  I don't remember tbh but they've definitely walked back from the everyone gets a shot idea.

No.

They've just accepted that everyone who was going to get vaccinated, has been vaccinated; and there's only so long they're going to continue banging their heads against the wall trying to convince conspiracy theorists that there's no conspiracy.
Or at least, that's my understanding.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Which Tyler

[Heartofice]

Also worth noting who the recommendations for who should get boosters are. *Hint it's not people who don't want to have a nasty cold for a few days. 

[Luzifer's right hand]

On an interesting sidenote someone I know who has narcolepsy has recently discovered that the prescription stimulant she uses is suddenly always in stock in multiple pharmacies. Asked at one of the pharmacies and they said it is one of the drugs used for  long covid management here. At least they are doing something here I have read some articles over the last few months which suggest it is incredible difficult for many long covid patients to get treatment in many european countries(that many places don't want people to test probably makes a difficult diagnosis even more difficult). I guess using a lot of resources on that does not fit the covid is over narrative most governments prefer.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Luzifer's right hand

[Week]

9 hours ago, mcbigski said:

Going through the study abstract it seemed to say that boosters haven't been effective among the elderly and other at risk populations, so the recommendation is more boosters.  (Under the "Interpretation" heading.)  I don't think I'm misreading that but if a study about the effectiveness of boosters is already assuming that boosters are effective, it's like masturbation without needing a kleenex.

I'll leave that to your area of expertise, apparently.

9 hours ago, mcbigski said:

As for the other link with the pretty picture, that's not data, that's a graph.  If unvaccinated people really are dying at a rate by eyeball of 6 to 10 times more, then that's a problem that solves itself in the long run if you just let people make their own choices. 

So, do we get a reprieve from your screeching about pharma profits for vaccines? I'm curious if you've always felt this way about insulin, rare drugs, and the greed of profit-seeking, rent-seeking of pharma that has been an issue for the last 20+ years. Typically, pharma is maligned because they have historically underfunded work in vaccines, antibiotics (huge issue), and other cures over treatments to boost profits.

9 hours ago, mcbigski said:

Read something today that heart attacks were up about 30% in adults under 50 or so.  That doesn't jibe with my experience.  

Oh, we have some bullshit anecdata -- fun!

https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/covid-19-surges-linked-to-spike-in-heart-attacks/

Quote

Key findings from the study include:

• In the year before the pandemic, there were 143,787 heart attack deaths; within the first year of the pandemic, this number had increased by 14% to 164,096.
• The excess in acute myocardial infarction-associated mortality has persisted throughout the pandemic, even during the most recent period marked by a surge of the presumed less-virulent Omicron variant. 
• Researchers found that although acute myocardial infarction deaths during the pandemic increased across all age groups, the relative rise was most significant for the youngest group, ages 25 to 44. 
• By the second year of the pandemic, the “observed” compared to “predicted” rates of heart attack death had increased by 29.9% for adults ages 25-44, by 19.6% for adults ages 45-64, and by 13.7% for adults age 65 and older.

“There are several potential explanations for the rapid rise in cardiac deaths in patients with COVID-19, yet still many unanswered questions,” said Yeo. “Importantly, our results highlight disparities in mortality that have emerged from the COVID-19 pandemic and that are persisting even through the Omicron era.” 

The possible explanations, Yeo said, include that COVID-19 may trigger or accelerate the presentation of preexisting coronary artery disease, even in younger adults. 

Reasons for the spike in heart-related conditions could also be related to psychological and social challenges associated with the pandemic, including job loss and other financial pressures that can cause acute or chronic stress leading to cardiac disease

Likely a confluence of factors with COVID as, surprise, a prominent one. I had read somewhere recently about an uptick in diabetes cases as well -- similarly, likely an effect from COVID's damage to the system as well as social factors.

[Week]

Related to the above as well -- feeling the Bern'?

 

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, Week said:

Related to the above as well -- feeling the Bern'?

That is really huge news! Nikki Haley, you may not like Bernie, but hey hey hey see what he's done, you bigoted, nothing clown burger.

[mcbigski]

On 2/16/2023 at 8:50 AM, Week said:

I'll leave that to your area of expertise, apparently.

So, do we get a reprieve from your screeching about pharma profits for vaccines? I'm curious if you've always felt this way about insulin, rare drugs, and the greed of profit-seeking, rent-seeking of pharma that has been an issue for the last 20+ years. Typically, pharma is maligned because they have historically underfunded work in vaccines, antibiotics (huge issue), and other cures over treatments to boost profits.

Oh, we have some bullshit anecdata -- fun!

https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/covid-19-surges-linked-to-spike-in-heart-attacks/

Likely a confluence of factors with COVID as, surprise, a prominent one. I had read somewhere recently about an uptick in diabetes cases as well -- similarly, likely an effect from COVID's damage to the system as well as social factors.

This is an example where nested quotes would be helpful.  No issues with the first response, even lame dick jokes work like fart jokes.

As for the second paragraph, I'm a bit confused.  Pharma corporations have always been about profit, not healing.  Our problem is that when it comes down to helping 100s of millions or lining their own pockets, the people working in government aren't always altruistic.  (Small is Beautiful was a provoking read, but somehow that's not applied to government.)  If the incentives were aligned that pharma made money by providing better outcomes, we'd be arguing about something else entirely, I think.  Tua should be extended.

That 30% increase was from years 2020 to 2022 from what I saw later.  So kind of like how Obama care didn't break the budget because they were measuring IIRC 10 years of revenue but only 6 or 7 years of expenses.  If that 30% increase was 28% in the first year of covid and 32% in the second year, then maybe the vaccines weren't a factor. 

I wonder the numbers are one year over one year.

 

[mcbigski]

Also, wouldn't it have thought it would be related, but reading the Bomber Mafia by Gladwell.  

In this quote, Festinger was a psych researcher.  Gladwell was talking about optimal air power strategies rather than alien raptures, but he apparently thought the following quote applied at least that far.

Quote

What did Festinger make of all this?  The you more invest in a set of beliefs - the greater the sacrifice you make in the service of that conviction - the more resistant you will be to evidence that suggests you are mistaken.  You don't give up.  You double down.

While I get that one could try to point that quote back at me, are we really in a pandemic of the unvaccinated at this point?  (Again full disclosure, I had one of the Janssen shot, but not repeated mRNA boosters).

How lucky are we that the big pharma companies finally found a counter for a virus that evolves like the common cold?

Edited February 21, 2023 by mcbigski

[Week]

Ivermectin - still doesn't work.