Covid 48： The Long March

[Heartofice]

5 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Also,

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/106094

Thanks, reiterates my point

"The good news is that you've had the full primary series of the vaccine and a bivalent booster, or you were vaccinated and infected, you have substantial protection against getting very sick and dying," 

[Padraig]

How we deal with risk is a very personal thing.  And while some actions can indeed be ill-thought out (doing a risky activity in order to avoid an even riskier activity), in most cases people simply evaluate risk differently and there is no real right answer.

I did get a booster in January for instance.  Cases were increasing at the time and I had a rather expensive trip to the Arctic Circle planned.  I didn't believe it changed my odds of getting COVID just before my trip significantly but the vaccine was free, it took me 20 minutes, the slight fear of missing out can win many arguments.

One can certainly nitpick the rights and wrongs of that (and many other) decision.  I would think there are more interesting things going on in the world though.

[Which Tyler]

Out of interest - why actually ARE you so opposed to people who look after their own health?

Do you also insist that people don't give up smoking? or cut down on their alcohol intake? How about people who dare to go to the gym? or do their physio exercises? wear a cycle helmet? look both ways before crossing a road?

Do you also demand their private medical histories? Do you also castigate them for looking after themselves?

Edited August 31 by Which Tyler

[Heartofice]

10 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Out of interest - why actually ARE you so opposed to people who look after their own health?

 

I’m not, I’m just commenting on a general trend on this board to misrepresent what the vaccine does, and what the benefits of the booster are.
 

There seems to be a certain crowd who want to display over caution as a badge of honour, and who seemingly want to live in a  world where it’s impossible to ever get even a little bit sick. Counting down the hours till you can get a booster for a virus for which you already have a very good immunity, is not a healthy mindset, and maybe those people should be questioned about some of their assumptions.

[Zorral]

Funny how so many people didn't mind masking up, and if possible, staying indoors with theier a/c and air purifiers when their air turned orange due to wildfire smoke.  So why in hell do they hate people who mask up, stay at home if possible, and purify air -- and want the same going on in the schools for their kids -- when severely contagious diseases than can and have and do kill are circulating in significant numbers where they live?

What is it about the mask and vaccines that scare these people into fits, such fits they actually attack sensible people behaving sensibly.

Some folks should be more than ashamed of themselves.  And get a frackin' grip.  And grow up.

Edited August 31 by Zorral

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

You can do it if you want, similarly if you aren’t in a vulnerable category then it’s probably not very necessary. 

Tell me you don’t know how flu shots work without telling me you don’t know how flu shots work.

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Thanks, reiterates my point

"The good news is that you've had the full primary series of the vaccine and a bivalent booster, or you were vaccinated and infected, you have substantial protection against getting very sick and dying," 

I never had a bivalent booster, if it was any of your business. 

And what if I’m not concerned about getting “very sick” (whatever that means) or dying? What I’m also concerned about getting sick enough that it disrupts my life for a few days or weeks? e.g. missing school, missing work, etc. Case in point:

1 hour ago, Padraig said:

I did get a booster in January for instance.  Cases were increasing at the time and I had a rather expensive trip to the Arctic Circle planned.  I didn't believe it changed my odds of getting COVID just before my trip significantly but the vaccine was free, it took me 20 minutes, the slight fear of missing out can win many arguments.

‘Makes the inconvenience of getting jabbed kind of a non-issue, no? It sure was a hell of a lot less tedious than this whole conversation. 
 

47 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

There seems to be a certain crowd who want to display over caution as a badge of honour, and who seemingly want to live in a  world where it’s impossible to ever get even a little bit sick. 

I mentioned in my original post that I caught covid in the spring and it knocked me on my ass. Would I like to avoid that again? Yup. Am I afraid of needles? Nope.

Speaking of people not concerned with being over cautious. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/

[LongRider]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

There seems to be a certain crowd who want to display over caution as a badge of honour,

Gee, I won't mention that I wear a helmet when I ride a bike and when I ride a horse.  Different helmet for each activity too.   Really, what I dope I am!  The only time I needed a helmet, it was there.  Did you know helmet manufacturers suggest to their customers that helmets that are over 5 years old, or have been in a fall should be replaced?  I mean, fuck man, I am I stupid for wearing helmets?*  

My wearing a helmet doesn't affect you, however, attending to up-to-date vaccs doesn't affect YOU either.  Enough already.  

*spoiler, no, just like I'm not stupid for staying up to date on vaccs, including covid.

Edited August 31 by LongRider

[Heartofice]

45 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

And what if I’m not concerned about getting “very sick” (whatever that means) or dying?

Preventing serious illness and death is the entire point of the booster shot. Sigh. 

 

11 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Gee, I won't mention that I wear a helmet when I ride a bike and when I ride a horse.

The only way this analogy makes sense in this conversation is if you are riding in a bullet proof car, or a tank, and you put on a cycling helmet to protect yourself. 

[Padraig]

5 hours ago, Heartofice said:

There seems to be a certain crowd who want to display over caution as a badge of honour, and who seemingly want to live in a  world where it’s impossible to ever get even a little bit sick. Counting down the hours till you can get a booster for a virus for which you already have a very good immunity, is not a healthy mindset, and maybe those people should be questioned about some of their assumptions.

When it comes down to it, I'm not sure i'd be diagnosing people with an unhealthy mindset based on a few posts on an internet board.  It is certainly possible that somebody is way too focused on the risks around COVID.  But I imagine most people here actually aren't.

Is it overcautious for an average person to get a vaccine?  You can make that argument (since the risks have diminished significantly since 2020) but given that getting a vaccine is such a low bar to cross, I don't buy the argument.  Depends on how you define overcaution I suppose.

[Varysblackfyre321]

20 minutes ago, Padraig said:

You can make that argument (since the risks have diminished significantly since 2020) but given that getting a vaccine is such a low bar to cross, I don't buy the argument. 

True. It looks peculiar  to fearmonger about people getting ready and safe vaccines because they’d like to decrease the chance of them suffering from covid. The fetishization of human suffering proffered the right has made society worse.

Such facile rhetoric get outcomes things like this;

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4177294-majority-of-us-dog-owners-now-skeptical-of-vaccines-including-for-rabies-study/amp/

 

[Fragile Bird]

Gee, why did I get the pneumonia vaccine and the shingles vaccine, eh?

[Raja]

It takes a certain kind of person to tell people that they 'probably' don't need a vaccine when you have no idea about their background or the people they are around, or their own specific risk.

It's just so weird.

 

[Heartofice]

I’m just repeating WHO guidance here guys, remember if you aren’t in a vulnerable category and you’ve already had previous jabs and infections then the benefits of additional boosters are absolutely minimal.

But I guess it’s ok to ignore WHO guidance when it doesn’t fit your worldview 

Edited September 1 by Heartofice

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

6 hours ago, Padraig said:

Is it overcautious for an average person to get a vaccine?  You can make that argument (since the risks have diminished significantly since 2020) but given that getting a vaccine is such a low bar to cross, I don't buy the argument.  Depends on how you define overcaution I suppose.

Exactly. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

25 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I’m just repeating WHO guidance here guys, remember if you aren’t in a vulnerable category and you’ve already had previous jabs and infections then the benefits of additional boosters are absolutely minimal.

But the benefits are still there you see? 
Also there are a lot of people who fit their definition of a vulnerable category, you have to concede that yes?

Quote

• Older adults;
• Younger adults with significant comorbidities (e.g., diabetes and heart disease) or severe obesity;
• People, including children aged 6 months and older, with serious immunocompromising conditions (e.g., transplant recipients, patients on immunosuppressive treatment; cancer patients);
• Pregnant persons;
• Frontline health workers.

• Medium priority group

  Includes:

• Healthy younger adults - adults without comorbidities under the age of 50 to 60 years (age thresholds depend on countries);
• Children and adolescents with severe obesity or comorbidities that put them at higher risk of severe COVID-19 infection.

  For this group, WHO recommends the primary series and first booster dose. 

  Additional booster doses are not routinely recommended. However, health authorities may consider giving additional boosters doses when the benefits are warranted and there are no known safety issues. Countries may also offer additional booster doses in the routine programme based on population risks, disease epidemiology or health priorities. 

  Low priority group

  Includes: 

• Healthy children and adolescents ages 6 months to 17 years

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/advice

Like real talk here the based on the guidelines offered a lot more people people should probably be getting the booster than there are.

27 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

But I guess it’s ok to ignore WHO guidance when it doesn’t fit your worldview 

Where Is the WHO discouraging any group of people from getting a Covid vaccine because it wouldn’t help as much  as other groups. Listen, I understand you’re concerned about more people getting vaccinated just to avoid pain but the WHO from what I can find only says you shouldn’t get vaccinated if: 

Quote

• You should not be vaccinated if:  
  • You have a history of severe allergic reactions/anaphylaxis to any of the ingredients of the COVID-19 vaccine. 
  • You have a fever over 38.5ºC on the day of your vaccine appointment. Postpone until you have recovered. 
  • You currently have confirmed or suspected COVID-19. Wait until you have completed the mandated isolation period and your acute symptoms have passed to get vaccinated.  
• If you are on blood thinners, it is safe for you to get vaccinated, but let the person vaccinating you know.  

 

[Heartofice]

I’ll just paste the link again with quotes because you seem to be confused:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/3/28/covid-19-who-says-no-extra-booster-needed-for-medium-risk-adults
 

It also recommended additional booster shots after the first one only for people at the highest risk of developing severe COVID-19 disease. They include older adults; younger adults with comorbidities such as diabetes; people with immunocompromising conditions like HIV; pregnant women; and front-line healthcare workers.

The medium-risk group includes healthy adults, usually under 60, and children and adolescents with comorbidities. SAGE recommends a primary series and a first booster dose.

“When it comes to the medium-risk group, additional booster doses … are no longer recommended,” said SAGE chair Hanna Nohynek.

“The vaccine is safe and it’s efficient against serious disease and death,” she said, noting that for the medium-risk group, while there was no harm in having another shot, “the benefit of these additional boosters is actually quite marginal”.

—-

 

[Heartofice]

So no, even in your own quote it says it’s not recommended for medium risk people to get an additional booster. That doesn’t mean don’t get one, but it’s very clear, the benefits are very small, because your level of immunity is already very likely to be high.

It’s not that it won’t help as much as for other groups, it’s that it’s not adding very much to your own already high immunity level. 
 

So I’m not sure what the point of argument is here. If someone has had multiple jabs, plus already been infected, possibly multiple times then additional boosters are not adding very much to what is a very high level of immunity. So when I say you probably don’t need a booster, what is it that people are disagreeing with?
 

It seems like this is just a gut reaction from people rather than thinking logically.

[Varysblackfyre321]

14 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

6 months ago. I also caught the flu a little while before that. I still plan on getting a flu shot when they become available in the fall. Do you approve? Oh, wait. I don’t give a shit. 

It is a bit sad for someone’s first instinct to hearing someone else, a complete stranger from online say they got boosted to immediately cry “you probably don’t need it!” 
I would say downright tragic even. unfortunately that’s the state of the modern right these days people seeking  routine, safe, medical care is demonized by them. 

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I’ll just

Please I’m trying to have a good faith, civil conversation, please just answer my questions to the best of your ability. Those being

Quote

Where Is the WHO discouraging any group of people from getting a Covid vaccine because it wouldn’t help as much  as other groups.

Again I understand your hatred of people trying to avoid pain(I don’t but I understand you do) but it appears to me you’re projecting personal inclination as expert medical advice

Edited September 1 by Varysblackfyre321

[Heartofice]

3 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Please I’m trying to have a good faith, civil conversation, please just answer my questions to the best of your ability.

I did. Which bit is confusing for you?