"Only 500 pages to go" for Winds of Winter

[Aebram]

 

https://wikiofthrones.com/george-rr-martin-winds-of-winter

 

[astarkchoice]

Would be exciting if we knew his output of pages per week erc

[Tyrosh Lannister]

TWOW = ~1500 pages

been 11 years and he says 500 pages to go.

So 1000 pages have been done.

1000 pages in 11 years.

~5 more years until TWOW then

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

He doesn't know if Casterly Rock will appear in the book or not yet. How does he know how close to finished he is if he doesn't even have an idea of what finished looks like? If he's got 1200 pages it's time to edit and and publish. Take a month off, come back write an outline for Dream, and get to it.

[Gilbert Green]

10 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

TWOW = ~1500 pages

been 11 years and he says 500 pages to go.

So 1000 pages have been done.

1000 pages in 11 years.

~5 more years until TWOW then

He says he's got about 1100 pages - maybe 1200 pages -- written.  He seems to anticipate that another 500 pages will bring him to 1600 pages, which will then have to be edited down to a STORM/DANCE sized volume, as was done with DANCE.  But of course the tale will grow in the telling, so he will probably need more than 500 pages to reach a suitable cutoff.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Gilbert Green

[EggBlue]

I hope George finishes winds this year . just to be rid of back and forth threads arguing Starks are the monsters or Targaryens , if nothing else .

[Craving Peaches]

17 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I hope George finishes winds this year . just to be rid of back and forth threads arguing Starks are the monsters or Targaryens , if nothing else .

What, you don't like threads such as 'Daenjon Tarstark is the Devil Incarnate'? I thought the discussion was really getting good. It's not like people were just repeating the same things over, and over and over again...

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

19 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

What, you don't like threads such as 'Daenjon Tarstark is the Devil Incarnate'? I thought the discussion was really getting good. It's not like people were just repeating the same things over, and over and over again...

We are. It gets old. When I heard 500 pages left I cried inside. It’s gonna be like 3 more years at least. And I know it’s rude to say this but I don’t think George will make it to the end of the series, and it’ll have to be finished by his wife.

Edited December 28, 2022 by KingEuronGreyjoy

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

I hope George finishes winds this year . just to be rid of back and forth threads arguing Starks are the monsters or Targaryens , if nothing else .

It would be nice if there was an independent section for hate threads. There's a few here that would keep them busy enough to justify and those of us who are sick of accidentally stepping into one would know what to avoid.

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

We are. It gets old. When I heard 500 pages left I cried inside. It’s gonna be like 3 more years at least. And I know it’s rude to say this but I don’t think George will make it to the end of the series, and it’ll have to be finished by his wife.

Nope  my sweet summer child itl not really ever  be the real finish!

Hes chosen a few writers he thinks could do a good job making an ending for it BUT it wont be his ending

 

If he dies hes told his wife to burn his outline for the ending and any other new materials hes made !!! Art isnt a democracy he says  so apparently fuck us fans  if he crokes wel.never know the real ending intended !!!!  

[Tyrosh Lannister]

5 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

He says he's got about 1100 pages - maybe 1200 pages -- written.  He seems to anticipate that another 500 pages will bring him to 1600 pages, which will then have to be edited down to a STORM/DANCE sized volume, as was done with DANCE.  But of course the tale will grow in the telling, so he will probably need more than 500 pages to reach a suitable cutoff.

This is also assuming he doesn't rewrite those hundreds of pages haha

[Castellan]

10 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

Nope  my sweet summer child itl not really ever  be the real finish!

Hes chosen a few writers he thinks could do a good job making an ending for it BUT it wont be his ending

 

If he dies hes told his wife to burn his outline for the ending and any other new materials hes made !!! Art isnt a democracy he says  so apparently fuck us fans  if he crokes wel.never know the real ending intended !!!!  

That is horrific! Why on earth surrender his own ending and pass it to people who would probably rather he left them an outline anyway. Reading some of the crazy threads on this forum and the amount of disagreement about everything makes me wonder what they'd come up with.

[$erPounce]

14 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

If he dies hes told his wife to burn his outline for the ending and any other new materials hes made !!! Art isnt a democracy he says  so apparently fuck us fans  if he crokes wel.never know the real ending intended !!!!  

 

3 hours ago, Castellan said:

That is horrific! Why on earth surrender his own ending and pass it to people who would probably rather he left them an outline anyway. Reading some of the crazy threads on this forum and the amount of disagreement about everything makes me wonder what they'd come up with.

That is an urban legend, possibly a statement by Robert Jordan attributed to Martin. Which is interesting, since Jordan was quite insistent that his unfinished drafts should be destroyed until he changed his mind after a terminal diagnosis.

Martin has always stated that he wants to preserve his drafts/manuscripts and make them accessible to the public.

Here are some examples:

George R. R. Martin has an archive of manuscripts at the Cushing Library in the Texas A&M University. Much of it is publicly available, but apparently certain collections are temporary not available to the public, such as (for now) the manuscript of A Dance with Dragons, due to potential spoilers. George wrote in May 2011:

"Some day, maybe, some student of fantasy literature may want to peruse all of these partial manuscripts, and document how A DANCE WITH DRAGONS changed over the years. Every time I printed out a copy to send to my editors, I made a second and sent it to the Special Collections at Texas A&M University, where my papers are kept. Maybe someone will get a master's thesis out of my struggles with this book. And who knows, maybe in the end he or she will conclude that I was making the book worse and worse all along."

If George is to be believed, they may now also be in possession of material from The Winds of Winter, if he is still sending copies to Texas A&M University now. We can thus conclude that he is willing to preserve his manuscripts.

In a 2007 NotABlog, he also wrote the following:

“Someday I will die, and I hope you're right and it's thirty years from now. When that happens, maybe my heirs will decide to publish a book of fragments and deleted chapters, and you'll all get to read about Tyrion's meeting with the Shrouded Lord. It's a swell, spooky, evocative chapter, but you won't read it in DANCE. It took me down a road I decided I did not want to travel, so I went back and ripped it out. So, unless I change my mind again, it's going the way of the draft of LORD OF THE RINGS where Tolkien has Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin reach the Prancing Pony and meet... a weatherbeaten old hobbit ranger named "Trotter."

Also possibly of interest:

George also indicated in Brisbane that what happened to J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings universe is an example of what he'd like to see happen to his legacy. J.R.R.'s son Christopher finished many of his father's works but has never allowed another author to write in the Tolkien universe.

“I'd hate to see that actually. I've always admired [J.R.R.] Tolkien and his immense influence on fantasy. [And] although I've never met the man, I admire Christopher Tolkien, his son, who has been the guardian of Tolkien's estate who has never allowed that."

[astarkchoice]

4 hours ago, $erPounce said:

 

That is an urban legend, possibly a statement by Robert Jordan attributed to Martin. Which is interesting, since Jordan was quite insistent that his unfinished drafts should be destroyed until he changed his mind after a terminal diagnosis.

Martin has always stated that he wants to preserve his drafts/manuscripts and make them accessible to the public.

Here are some examples:

George R. R. Martin has an archive of manuscripts at the Cushing Library in the Texas A&M University. Much of it is publicly available, but apparently certain collections are temporary not available to the public, such as (for now) the manuscript of A Dance with Dragons, due to potential spoilers. George wrote in May 2011:

"Some day, maybe, some student of fantasy literature may want to peruse all of these partial manuscripts, and document how A DANCE WITH DRAGONS changed over the years. Every time I printed out a copy to send to my editors, I made a second and sent it to the Special Collections at Texas A&M University, where my papers are kept. Maybe someone will get a master's thesis out of my struggles with this book. And who knows, maybe in the end he or she will conclude that I was making the book worse and worse all along."

If George is to be believed, they may now also be in possession of material from The Winds of Winter, if he is still sending copies to Texas A&M University now. We can thus conclude that he is willing to preserve his manuscripts.

In a 2007 NotABlog, he also wrote the following:

“Someday I will die, and I hope you're right and it's thirty years from now. When that happens, maybe my heirs will decide to publish a book of fragments and deleted chapters, and you'll all get to read about Tyrion's meeting with the Shrouded Lord. It's a swell, spooky, evocative chapter, but you won't read it in DANCE. It took me down a road I decided I did not want to travel, so I went back and ripped it out. So, unless I change my mind again, it's going the way of the draft of LORD OF THE RINGS where Tolkien has Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin reach the Prancing Pony and meet... a weatherbeaten old hobbit ranger named "Trotter."

Also possibly of interest:

George also indicated in Brisbane that what happened to J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings universe is an example of what he'd like to see happen to his legacy. J.R.R.'s son Christopher finished many of his father's works but has never allowed another author to write in the Tolkien universe.

“I'd hate to see that actually. I've always admired [J.R.R.] Tolkien and his immense influence on fantasy. [And] although I've never met the man, I admire Christopher Tolkien, his son, who has been the guardian of Tolkien's estate who has never allowed that."

Hope so

Phew

[Gilbert Green]

4 hours ago, $erPounce said:

That is an urban legend, possibly a statement by Robert Jordan attributed to Martin.

Not entirely.  It is based, I think, on things GRRM has actually said in a fit of petulance, in response to those who were rude enough (in his opinion) to suggest he might actually die some day and leave the book unfinished (he hates both topics), and to ask him if he had made any provision for such an eventuality.  I did not take such statements seriously, so I feel no interest in digging them up for you. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Gilbert Green

[Castellan]

9 hours ago, $erPounce said:

 

That is an urban legend, possibly a statement by Robert Jordan attributed to Martin. Which is interesting, since Jordan was quite insistent that his unfinished drafts should be destroyed until he changed his mind after a terminal diagnosis.

Martin has always stated that he wants to preserve his drafts/manuscripts and make them accessible to the public.

Here are some examples:

George R. R. Martin has an archive of manuscripts at the Cushing Library in the Texas A&M University. Much of it is publicly available, but apparently certain collections are temporary not available to the public, such as (for now) the manuscript of A Dance with Dragons, due to potential spoilers. George wrote in May 2011:

"Some day, maybe, some student of fantasy literature may want to peruse all of these partial manuscripts, and document how A DANCE WITH DRAGONS changed over the years. Every time I printed out a copy to send to my editors, I made a second and sent it to the Special Collections at Texas A&M University, where my papers are kept. Maybe someone will get a master's thesis out of my struggles with this book. And who knows, maybe in the end he or she will conclude that I was making the book worse and worse all along."

If George is to be believed, they may now also be in possession of material from The Winds of Winter, if he is still sending copies to Texas A&M University now. We can thus conclude that he is willing to preserve his manuscripts.

In a 2007 NotABlog, he also wrote the following:

“Someday I will die, and I hope you're right and it's thirty years from now. When that happens, maybe my heirs will decide to publish a book of fragments and deleted chapters, and you'll all get to read about Tyrion's meeting with the Shrouded Lord. It's a swell, spooky, evocative chapter, but you won't read it in DANCE. It took me down a road I decided I did not want to travel, so I went back and ripped it out. So, unless I change my mind again, it's going the way of the draft of LORD OF THE RINGS where Tolkien has Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin reach the Prancing Pony and meet... a weatherbeaten old hobbit ranger named "Trotter."

Also possibly of interest:

George also indicated in Brisbane that what happened to J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings universe is an example of what he'd like to see happen to his legacy. J.R.R.'s son Christopher finished many of his father's works but has never allowed another author to write in the Tolkien universe.

“I'd hate to see that actually. I've always admired [J.R.R.] Tolkien and his immense influence on fantasy. [And] although I've never met the man, I admire Christopher Tolkien, his son, who has been the guardian of Tolkien's estate who has never allowed that."

Glad to hear it. I wondered if it was some sort of joke he'd made or something to annoy crazy fans.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Castellan

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

500 pages left is too much unfortunately.  This really doesn't sound good.  I know George wants to release a quality book, but maybe it's time he sends his editor what he has, even if it's incomplete.

Edited December 31, 2022 by bloodsteel bitterraven

[Aebram]

I'm not sure if this will be considered good news, but for what it's worth .....

After Robert Heinlein passed away, his records were found to include a fairly detailed set of notes for a book that he never wrote. His heirs turns the notes over to Spider Robinson, a successful author in his own right, as well as a fan and friend of Heinlein. Robinson wrote the book; "Variable Star" was published in 2006.

I've been a fan of Heinlein for more than 50 years. I have all of his books, and I've read most of them many times.  For the most part, I like "Variable Star." There were a few small errors in references to real-life Earth culture. And I found the middle somewhat boring; but the beginning and ending were real page-turners. The style and tone, and the overall quality, were very Heinlein-esque. If I had been told that Heinlein wrote it, I would have believed it.

Of course, I hope that the Martin will finish his story himself. And I agree with Bitterraven's idea. If George has written 1100 pages, mayhaps he can find a way to take the first 800 or so, and tweak them so that they can be published as a separate book.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Aebram

[EggBlue]

poor George , he seems a bit frustrated ! I kinda feel sorry for him ..

 

I did take a few days off for the holidays, I confess.   Shame on me, I guess.   But now I am back in the salt mine, working… working on so many bloody things, my head may soon explode.   Yes, WINDS OF WINTER, yes, yes. .....  Oh, and did I forget WINDS OF WINTER?  No, of course I didn’t.   But if I ever did, I know you folks will remind me....... well, this past week the G-Men lost a heartbreaker to the Vikings, and the Jets failed to turn up for their game against the Jags.  (Please, Mike White, get well soon).   Life is meaningless and full of pain.   Clearly, the Football Gods hate me.   Maybe they are pissed off about WINDS being so late too…...... WHITE LOTUS 2 on HBO made me want to go visit Sicily… but I won’t, not until WINDS is done and delivered, I promised...... 

 

(it was also somewhat funny , the way he kept writing ok ok I'm working on Winds!)

[Brother Seamus]

it's heartening to me that he is apparently feeling a sense of urgency.