"Only 500 pages to go" for Winds of Winter

[The Bard of Banefort]

Quentyn would have been a good match for Dany, as Barristan pointed out. Quaithe wasn’t the only reason she turned him down—she also wasn’t ready to leave Meereen. But we know Quentyn didn’t go to meet Dany with the intention of betraying her. And it seems highly likely now that Quentyn’s death will result in Dorne turning against Dany.

[Aelwen]

18 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

But trying to tame and take someone else's dragon without their knowledge or consent would be classified as stealing.

Their are not HER dragons. They were like Vhagar in HOTD, free to be claimed. She couldn't tame them anyway. Only one dragon will be hers.

 

What is even the Dragons role in the future? One small dragon can't help in battle. Drogon is barely able to lift a horse now. 

They can act as small private jets only. They can be killed with scorpions. So I see them being killed one by one in the books just in another manner. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Aelwen

[sifth]

17 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Quentyn would have been a good match for Dany, as Barristan pointed out. Quaithe wasn’t the only reason she turned him down—she also wasn’t ready to leave Meereen. But we know Quentyn didn’t go to meet Dany with the intention of betraying her. And it seems highly likely now that Quentyn’s death will result in Dorne turning against Dany.

My cousin is still angry at Dany for rejecting Quentyn and my cousin is particularly annoyed that him being ugly is what played a factor in Dany’s choice.

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, sifth said:

My cousin is still angry at Dany for rejecting Quentyn and my cousin is particularly annoyed that him being ugly is what played a factor in Dany’s choice.

Breaking off her betrothal to Hizdahr, a day before the wedding, would have been … brave (in the Yes Minister sense).

[Morte]

8 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Breaking off her betrothal to Hizdahr, a day before the wedding, would have been … brave (in the Yes Minister sense).

Thank you very much for this.

Her betrothal to Hizdahr is the reason she spurns Quentyn. Yes, Quentyn is a nice guy (I really like him as a character), and would be a good match for Dany, even though she doesn't knows this at that time, but he is too late - and alone. That's the reasons Dany rejects him, not Quaithe or his looks. This factors might have played a role in hypothetical scenarios in which she doesn't think her only way to keep the "peace" is to marry Hizdahr, with an army in front of her city.

Had Quentyn come to a truly peaceful Meereen, or with an army to lift the siege, the situation might have been different, but he did not.

Beside, even with the situation being as it is, she still shows him the dragons - so no, she might be cautious because of Quaithe's prophesy, but not paranoid or cold toward Quentyn, so she even might have married him, or at least considered his a fitting suitor, had there been the possibility.

[sifth]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Breaking off her betrothal to Hizdahr, a day before the wedding, would have been … brave (in the Yes Minister sense).

On the plus side, she gains the army of Dorne.

[BlackLightning]

On 5/11/2023 at 10:54 AM, Aelwen said:

Their are not HER dragons. They were like Vhagar in HOTD, free to be claimed. She couldn't tame them anyway. Only one dragon will be hers.

They ARE her dragons.

This isn't a Aemond-Vhagar-Rhaena sitaution. Aemond had just as much right to Vhagar as Rhaena did. But Tyland Lannister, Alys Rivers, the Shepherd or the peasant baker named Joe from down the street DO NOT have the same right to Vhagar as Aemond and Rhaena. Why?

Because Aemond and Rhaena are trueborn Targaryens and it is their birthright. Dragons are the property of House Targaryen. If Rhaegal and Viserion were horses, could someone just walk into the stables of the Red Keep, take a horse without permission and not be labelled as a horse thief.

And to be honest, trueborn Targaryens don't even have a right to the dragons. Claiming a dragon is not a right, it is privilege...a privilege granted to them by the head of House Targaryen. King Viserys was an exception...everybody got a dragon because he's a big sentimental softie. But King Jaehaerys didn't even allow his younger daughters to claim a dragon when there was no real logical reason for them to be denied a dragon. Not even the infamously passive and ineffective King Aenys allowed all of his children ride dragons whenever they wanted (much less claim them)…a decision that directly caused the problems with Maegor and the Faith Militant to spiral out of control

Quentyn was a good dude. And his intentions were surely good (I have to reread those Dance chapters) but Quentyn played with fire and he got burned. Literally.

On 5/11/2023 at 1:31 PM, SeanF said:

Breaking off her betrothal to Hizdahr, a day before the wedding, would have been … brave (in the Yes Minister sense).

Lmao right.

I was just about to say that she could not afford to end her betrothal to Hizdahr. The whole premise of the betrothal was to end terrorism in Meereen. Have you guys not been paying attention to the story? What happened when Robb broke his vow to House Frey by marrying House Westerling?

If Dany just dropped everything she was dealing with in order to carry on with Quentyn, they would've all been doomed. Keep in mind that Dany's situation was much more dangerous than Robb's...because Meereen not only had the Sons of the Harpy problem. The Yunkish slaver coalition was closing in and Qarth had essentially blockaded the city.

On 5/11/2023 at 2:39 PM, sifth said:

On the plus side, she gains the army of Dorne.

What army of Dorne?

Oh, you mean the one guarding the Red Mountains on the other side of the world?

 

Have you heard of the saying "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush?"

How is Dany supposed to concern herself with getting the army of Dorne when she has two hostile armies sitting outside of her city and another one lying dormant within her city at the present moment. They don't even have the ships to go to Qarth. How the hell are they supposed to make it to Dorne?

 

I feel really bad about this whole situation. The one who is really at fault here is Prince Doran. Quentyn was not only beyond completely unprepared, he was also not the right man for the job. Oberyn or Arianne would have been more appropriate...and even they need an army of their own. Prince Doran is playing it too safe. All these half-measures are going to be prove to be disastrous.

Edited May 15, 2023 by BlackLightning

[SeanF]

29 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

They ARE her dragons.

This isn't a Aemond-Vhagar-Rhaena sitaution. Aemond had just as much right to Vhagar as Rhaena did. But Tyland Lannister, Alys Rivers, the Shepherd or the peasant baker named Joe from down the street FO NOT have the same right to Vhagar as Aemond and Rhaena. If the peasant can claim Vhagar,  Why?

Because Aemond and Rhaena are trueborn Targaryens and it is their birthright. Dragons are the property of House Targaryen. If Rhaegal and Viserion were horses, could someone just walk into Daenerys' stable, take a horse without permission and not be labelled as a horse thief.

And to be honest, trueborn Targaryens don't even have a right to the dragons. Claiming a dragon is not a right, it is privilege...a privilege granted to them by the head of House Targaryen. King Viserys was an exception...everybody got a dragon because he's a big sentimental softie. But King Jaehaerys didn't even allow his younger daughters to claim a dragon when there was no real logical reason for them to be denied a dragon. Not even the infamously passive and ineffective King Aenys allowed all of his children ride dragons whenever they wanted (much less claim them)…a decision that directly caused the problems with Maegor and the Faith Militant to spiral out of control

Quentyn was a good dude. And his intentions were surely good (I have to reread those Dance chapters) but Quentyn played with fire and he got burned. Literally.

Lmao right.

I was just about to say that she could not afford to end her betrothal to Hizdahr. The whole premise of the betrothal was to end terrorism in Meereen. Have you guys not been paying attention to the story? What happened when Robb broke his vow to House Frey by marrying House Westerling?

If Dany just dropped everything she was dealing with in order to carry on with Quentyn, they would've all been doomed. Keep in mind that Dany's situation was much more dangerous than Robb's...because Meereen not only had the Sons of the Harpy problem. The Yunkish slaver coalition was closing in and Qarth had essentially blockaded the city.

What army of Dorne?

Oh, you mean the one guarding the Red Mountains on the other side of the world?

 

Have you heard of the saying "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush?"

How is Dany supposed to concern herself with getting the army of Dorne when she has two hostile armies sitting outside of her city and another one lying dormant within her city at the present moment. They don't even have the ships to go to Qarth. How the hell are they supposed to make it to Dorne?

 

I feel really bad about this whole situation. The one who is really at fault here is Prince Doran. Quentyn was not only beyond completely unprepared, he was also not the right man for the job. Oberyn or Arianne would have been more appropriate...and even they need an army of their own. Prince Doran is playing it too safe. All these half-measures are going to be prove to be disastrous.

He ought to have sent out Arianne to seduce Dany.

In effect, Dany would have had to carry out a great purge, in order to marry Quentyn, at this point.  It would have meant war to the death.

Had Quentyn come with the Dornish army, well, that would have been an option.  But, he did not.

 

[James Arryn]

Does Dany say that she’d have considered Quentyn if he looked like…eh, half awake with killer headache, brain not on…not Arch, his other friend…or was that Selmy’s supposition? Or both? Can’t remember. If it was Barry it would obviously be retrospect, and that seems much less likely, but still possible.

 

edit: just realized what thread this is, lol. We’ve even turned a thread about publication frustration into a character debate, this is us at our best doing our thing, people. 
 

edit2, not to whine…well, not to whine more than usual, anyways, but while it doesn’t seem broken, I have also managed to hurt my right hand in our Tuscan place for the second time in a row, 2/2, wtf. At least this one wasn’t down to boneheaded stupidity.

Edited May 16, 2023 by James Arryn

[Craving Peaches]

Obviously I don't expect Daenerys to just drop everything for Quentyn, but I did get the impression she sort of mocked him in front of everyone which wasn't great.

[Lord Browndodd]

It's not Quentyn that is necessarily the problem, the one Dany shouldn't trust - it's Doran, as Quentyn is basically there as Doran's ambassador/agent.

[Summerland]

Might be 5000 pages left, George is busy, but unfortunately, not with TWOW. 

[BlackLightning]

On 5/16/2023 at 4:11 AM, Craving Peaches said:

Obviously I don't expect Daenerys to just drop everything for Quentyn, but I did get the impression she sort of mocked him in front of everyone which wasn't great.

It's a testament to GRRM's writing ability to craft a situation in which person A is clearly NOT making fun of person B (person A even goes so far as to publicly and privately explain why they laughed) but that both bystanders and the readership interpret the compete opposite

[butterweedstrover]

7 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

It's a testament to GRRM's writing ability to craft a situation in which person A is clearly NOT making fun of person B (person A even goes so far as to publicly and privately explain why they laughed) but that both bystanders and the readership interpret the compete opposite

It's not that amazing. 

[BlackLightning]

Just now, butterweedstrover said:

It's not that amazing. 

LOL

I didn't say it was amazing. What I'm saying that it was clever.

[Lady Winter Rose]

I think we might see book 6 announced completed soon. It's been little over 7 months since this Martin words. Same happened with Dance, he announced 3-5 more chapters, then we had book in 5 months.

[Brother Seamus]

On 7/2/2023 at 9:22 AM, Lady Winter Rose said:

I think we might see book 6 announced completed soon. It's been little over 7 months since this Martin words. Same happened with Dance, he announced 3-5 more chapters, then we had book in 5 months.

bless your heart.