Ned, the Unstark

[H Wadsworth Longfellow]

I want the Starks to lose and go extinct but I like Ned.  He was different from Brandon, Lyanna, and Rickard.  His children are all on the dark side now.  Traitors, murderers, oathbreakers, and cannibals the Stark children are.  I don't hold that against him.  Ned's memory to the reader is still that of a good man.  All that he did in Game Of Thrones was for the good of others.  He spoke up for Princess Daenerys upon learning of the plot to have her assassinated.  He warned Cersei to save the lives of innocent children.  He was a moral man at the time we meet him.  We cannot know for sure what he was like as a young man but the basic character of a moral man had to be there.  I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was not part of Rickard's plot to undermine the Targaryen monarchy. 

If Ned had not the noticeable appearance shared with Arya, Jon, and Lyanna, I would think he was adopted and came from a family with better temperament.

{My opinion of Ned will change if the text later reveals Ned knew about the fathers' plot to bring down the Targaryens and did nothing to stop them}

Edited December 28, 2022 by H Wadsworth Longfellow

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

I want the Starks to lose and go extinct but I like Ned.  He was different from Brandon, Lyanna, and Rickard.  His children are all on the dark side now.  Traitors, murderers, oathbreakers, and cannibals the Stark children are.  I don't hold that against him.  Ned's memory to the reader is still that of a good man.  All that he did in Game Of Thrones was for the good of others.  He spoke up for Princess Daenerys upon learning of the plot to have her assassinated.  He warned Cersei to save the lives of innocent children.  He was a moral man at the time we meet him.  We cannot know for sure what he was like as a young man but the basic character of a moral man had to be there.  I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was not part of Rickard's plot to undermine the Targaryen monarchy. 

If Ned had not the noticeable appearance shared with Arya, Jon, and Lyanna, I would think he was adopted and came from a family with better temperament.

{My opinion of Ned will change if the text later reveals Ned knew about the fathers' plot to bring down the Targaryens and did nothing to stop them}

I really want to know your opinioın on Targaryens in better detail!

Edited December 28, 2022 by Corvo the Crow

[EggBlue]

we NEED the new book . maybe that will bring something new to this forum . something other than different iterations of "I hate the Starks , I love the Targaryens" or "I hate the Targaryens , I love the Starks"

[Craving Peaches]

I too remember when the evil, scheming Starks decided to overthrow the good and righteous Targaryens. Remember when Lord Rickard killed his own son to try and pin the blame on the Targaryens, and then killed himself to cover up the plot?

[astarkchoice]

Yes.go teams frey, bolton, the slavers, the others, euron  and if possible the old ones!

im rooting for LF to bed and marry sansa , the new red wedding to be uncovered by those brave freys , those ungrateful slaves to be broken and of course for good old cersei the wise to prosper 

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

I hear that monster Robb Stark would often transform into a wolf at night and devour wayward children!

[Corvo the Crow]

Benjen is secretly Daario, taking advantage of Daenerys so when the eventual downfall of those Stark curs come to pass and Targaryens finally restored to the Iron Chair, her hair will be a secret Stark child. They have some low cunning these Starks.

[astarkchoice]

56 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

I hear that monster Robb Stark would often transform into a wolf at night and devour wayward children!

His evil sister  makes him look tame!

She lured her kind finacee the noble joffery  into a trap with her other sister (an assasin they say) and a wolf  and some peasant thugs to be mauled......luckily prince joffery was a chip.off the old block and fought them off with the strength of his father  robert in his veins ,  despite grevious injury spoke true at an inquiry later.

She then posioned sweet king joffery ,hero of the blackwater and left her evil dwarf husband and co.conspirator to face justice! Before that she had been seen time and time again to be just soo  willfull good king joff had to correct her  for her own good!! 

and its even rumoured she consorted with the foul anti seven tyrells and used her  foul northern magic or  whoreish seductress ways to make good ser hound forsake his duty!

Rumours abound shes showed up at  the vale where her just and true aunt died suddenly, a noble bard assaulted , the vigourous and strong son of jon arryn is now sickly and to top it off shes set her eyes to seduce an innocent knight to be!!!

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by astarkchoice

[Corvo the Crow]

44 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

His evil sister  makes him look tame!

She lured her kind finacee the noble joffery  into a trap with her other sister (an assasin they say) and a wolf  and some peasant thugs to be mauled......luckily prince joffery was a chip.off the old block and fought them off with the strength of his father  robert in his veins ,  despite grevious injury spoke true at an inquiry later.

She then posioned sweet king joffery ,hero of the blackwater and left her evil dwarf husband and co.conspirator to face justice! Before that she had been seen time and time again to be just soo  willfull good king joff had to correct her  for her own good!! 

and its even rumoured she consorted with the foul anti seven tyrells and used her  foul northern magic or  whoreish seductress ways to make good ser hound forsake his duty!

Rumours abound shes showed up at  the vale where her just and true aunt died suddenly, a noble bard assaulted , the vigourous and strong son of jon arryn is now sickly and to top it off shes set her eyes to seduce an innocent knight to be!!!

 

She turned me into a newt.

[LongRider]

3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Remember when Lord Rickard killed his own son to try and pin the blame on the Targaryens, and then killed himself to cover up the plot?

I do remember that!

[LongRider]

Let’s not forget that crippled boy who ordered two of his subjects to drag him and his chatty servant North, hopefully, they will never be seen again. 

[EggBlue]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Benjen is secretly Daario, taking advantage of Daenerys so when the eventual downfall of those Stark curs come to pass and Targaryens finally restored to the Iron Chair, her hair will be a secret Stark child. They have some low cunning these Starks.

I have actually seen that as a theory , either on Youtube or right here , I don't know! but it's in the same category as Mance is Rhaegar and Euron is Daario . lol

2 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

His evil sister  makes him look tame!

She lured her kind finacee the noble joffery  into a trap with her other sister (an assasin they say) and a wolf  and some peasant thugs to be mauled......luckily prince joffery was a chip.off the old block and fought them off with the strength of his father  robert in his veins ,  despite grevious injury spoke true at an inquiry later.

She then posioned sweet king joffery ,hero of the blackwater and left her evil dwarf husband and co.conspirator to face justice! Before that she had been seen time and time again to be just soo  willfull good king joff had to correct her  for her own good!! 

and its even rumoured she consorted with the foul anti seven tyrells and used her  foul northern magic or  whoreish seductress ways to make good ser hound forsake his duty!

Rumours abound shes showed up at  the vale where her just and true aunt died suddenly, a noble bard assaulted , the vigourous and strong son of jon arryn is now sickly and to top it off shes set her eyes to seduce an innocent knight to be!!!

 

YOU . NAILED . IT . well done! 

[Corvo the Crow]

7 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I have actually seen that as a theory , either on Youtube or right here , I don't know! but it's in the same category as Mance is Rhaegar and Euron is Daario . lol

10 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

Benjen is secretly Daario is an old thing that predates me in the forums. 

[Canon Claude]

To be honest, I do think that Ned wasn’t meant to be a true Stark. He wasn’t raised in the North, he was raised in the Vale by Jon Arryn. Ned rarely thinks of his own father, it’s Jon who occupies that space in his memory.

Keep in mind, the first thing that people associate with Ned is his sense of honour. The Starks never embodied honour, traditionally. They were definitely blunt and honest, sure, and they did keep to strict codes which set them apart from other houses, but they were also savages at heart. They were wolves, and wolves don’t devote everything to honour. Ned got that obsession with honour from the Vale, from the man whose house motto literally says “as high as honour”. 
And really, the story shows just how badly things go for House Stark because they’ve lost their way. Ned isn’t a true Stark, or else he wouldn’t need to be persuaded so hard to keep the direwolf pups. Any true Stark would have seen what that sign was. And his son’s downfall is largely due to him being Ned’s son. Robb shows great promise at first, but then distances himself from his wolf, and also does the “honourable” thing where Jeyne Westerling is concerned. You could even make an argument that Ned and his children represent the south’s influence on the North, and their corruption of House Stark from their past and heritage. 

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, Canon Claude said:

And really, the story shows just how badly things go for House Stark because they’ve lost their way. Ned isn’t a true Stark, or else he wouldn’t need to be persuaded so hard to keep the direwolf pups. Any true Stark would have seen what that sign was. And his son’s downfall is largely due to him being Ned’s son. Robb shows great promise at first, but then distances himself from his wolf, and also does the “honourable” thing where Jeyne Westerling is concerned. You could even make an argument that Ned and his children represent the south’s influence on the North, and their corruption of House Stark from their past and heritage. 

Robb with Jeyne has less to do with honor and more to do with Cat not being a queen as the name would suggest but a bitch. Her treatment of Jon was the reason Robb married Jeyne.

[Aline de Gavrillac]

19 hours ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

I want the Starks to lose and go extinct but I like Ned.  He was different from Brandon, Lyanna, and Rickard.  His children are all on the dark side now.  Traitors, murderers, oathbreakers, and cannibals the Stark children are.  I don't hold that against him.  Ned's memory to the reader is still that of a good man.  All that he did in Game Of Thrones was for the good of others.  He spoke up for Princess Daenerys upon learning of the plot to have her assassinated.  He warned Cersei to save the lives of innocent children.  He was a moral man at the time we meet him.  We cannot know for sure what he was like as a young man but the basic character of a moral man had to be there.  I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was not part of Rickard's plot to undermine the Targaryen monarchy. 

If Ned had not the noticeable appearance shared with Arya, Jon, and Lyanna, I would think he was adopted and came from a family with better temperament.

{My opinion of Ned will change if the text later reveals Ned knew about the fathers' plot to bring down the Targaryens and did nothing to stop them}

Individuality or the Starks are not a monolithic people.  

5 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

To be honest, I do think that Ned wasn’t meant to be a true Stark. He wasn’t raised in the North, he was raised in the Vale by Jon Arryn. Ned rarely thinks of his own father, it’s Jon who occupies that space in his memory.

Keep in mind, the first thing that people associate with Ned is his sense of honour. The Starks never embodied honour, traditionally. They were definitely blunt and honest, sure, and they did keep to strict codes which set them apart from other houses, but they were also savages at heart. They were wolves, and wolves don’t devote everything to honour. Ned got that obsession with honour from the Vale, from the man whose house motto literally says “as high as honour”. 
And really, the story shows just how badly things go for House Stark because they’ve lost their way. Ned isn’t a true Stark, or else he wouldn’t need to be persuaded so hard to keep the direwolf pups. Any true Stark would have seen what that sign was. And his son’s downfall is largely due to him being Ned’s son. Robb shows great promise at first, but then distances himself from his wolf, and also does the “honourable” thing where Jeyne Westerling is concerned. You could even make an argument that Ned and his children represent the south’s influence on the North, and their corruption of House Stark from their past and heritage. 

It's not a heritage to be proud of in the current value system of Westeros.  I do not admire them for it.  You may be right about one thing.  It helped them survive and subjugate the other savages in the north.  Wolves care not for right or wrong but only for the protection of the pack.  It's ugly but this is a dark story.  The people of the north are savages who understand force.  Greatjon wasn't persuaded by logic, reason, laws, or honor.  Force in the form of wolf teeth did.  

Robb failed because he didn't have honor.  He wanted to be with someone he loved instead of a bride chosen by Lord Walder as he swore to accept.  I hope you are not saying honor is a bad thing.  Honor and oath allow people to live side by side in relative harmony.  The desires of the human heart needs to be kept on a leash for the good of everyone.  

A lot of ugly history will come out in WoW.  Like the Starks and the north had to have eaten people to survive in the past during famine.  The most civilized entity in the north is the Night's Watch.  

[Canon Claude]

1 hour ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

 

Robb failed because he didn't have honor.  He wanted to be with someone he loved instead of a bride chosen by Lord Walder as he swore to accept.  I hope you are not saying honor is a bad thing.  Honor and oath allow people to live side by side in relative harmony.  The desires of the human heart needs to be kept on a leash for the good of everyone.  

 

You’re confusing the abomination for the books. Robb didn’t marry Jeyne for love. He married her because he was being nursed by her, he was grieving the deaths of his brothers, and she “comforted” him. His sense of honour meant that he had to marry her since he’d taken her virginity.

[Rondo]

There are a few apples in every big barrel that are not full of worms and rotten inside.  Ned was like that.  

[The Lord of the Crossing]

On 12/28/2022 at 10:29 AM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

I want the Starks to lose and go extinct but I like Ned.  He was different from Brandon, Lyanna, and Rickard.  His children are all on the dark side now.  Traitors, murderers, oathbreakers, and cannibals the Stark children are.  I don't hold that against him.  Ned's memory to the reader is still that of a good man.  All that he did in Game Of Thrones was for the good of others.  He spoke up for Princess Daenerys upon learning of the plot to have her assassinated.  He warned Cersei to save the lives of innocent children.  He was a moral man at the time we meet him.  We cannot know for sure what he was like as a young man but the basic character of a moral man had to be there.  I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was not part of Rickard's plot to undermine the Targaryen monarchy. 

If Ned had not the noticeable appearance shared with Arya, Jon, and Lyanna, I would think he was adopted and came from a family with better temperament.

{My opinion of Ned will change if the text later reveals Ned knew about the fathers' plot to bring down the Targaryens and did nothing to stop them}

The true nature of a person doesn't change.  Eddard Stark was more mature when the book began but he must have been an ok person in his youth.  His children and his bastard are obviously different.  They were all raised in the hell hole that is the north.  Eddard wasn't obsessed with vengeance like Arya and Jon are.  The Starks kids will become darker and are poised to become the bad guys of the plot.  Eddard would be spinning in his grave if he could see what Jon and Arya have become.

[Craving Peaches]

3 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Eddard would be spinning in his grave if he could see what Jon

One of the best LCs in recent history who was able to look past petty bigotry and see the bigger picture, who died trying to defend the Watch from the greatest threat? Eddard would be rightly proud with Jon.