Southwest Airlines Meltdown

[DMC]

21 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

but telling me I should just stay at Midway for the next 36 hours wasn't a winning move.

I mean, telling you to just stay at Midway is far more accommodating than where I'd tell you to stay....

[mcbigski]

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

I mean, telling you to just stay at Midway is far more accommodating than where I'd tell you to stay....

That's a basically content free response.  If you're more wasted than I am tonight, seek help.

[DMC]

19 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

That's a basically content free response.

It's called a joke.  And a pretty lighthearted one.

20 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

If you're more wasted than I am tonight, seek help.

Son I'm always more wasted than you.  I just don't embarrass myself nearly as much.

[Jace, Extat]

1 hour ago, Wade1865 said:

I wouldn't even blame the mid-level leadership unless they had the decision-making capacity to transform the airline's technology systems. It was a calculated risk taken on by senior leaders, and it makes sense that some of them should resign (though, seppuku wouldn't be unreasonable for the CEO).

/cdn-cgi/mirage/3147f740a2a3662aaaf85ff234cb03121a827026dfcb102b5b0e28261491ae61/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_uhoh.gif

My biggest issue with a dignified suicide is that sometimes the mob is owed their hour with the pre-deceased 

 

[kairparavel]

The last time I flew SW was seven years ago, LAX to BWI. Due to weather we had to land in St Louis and we were stuck there a little over 24 hours due to plane availability, crew time outs and flight schedules the next day. We were lucky as some people were told they had to wait even longer to get to their final destinations.

Ultimately it was their lack of partnerships and codesharing with other airlines, along with their flight pattens as explained by Ravenhair, that led me add them to my no fly list. Other airlines cancel flights, suffer weather delays and crew timeouts but generally have options within hours, not days. 

[LongRider]

Happy New Years dude!

 

[Wilbur]

On 12/29/2022 at 10:22 PM, mcbigski said:

Out of my last three trips with SW, there was one smooth, one small delay, and one total nightmare.  I want to like them, but telling me I should just stay at Midway for the next 36 hours wasn't a winning move.  BwB in Vegas was great besides that....

But why do you seem to blaming Southwest for whatever the "airport police" are doing?  Does Southwest staff the airport police?  Do they control the TSA? 

If Southwest staff is forcing people waiting for a connection to leave the terminal to make them go back through security again, that would be worth a post.  Separation of powers isn't what it used to be, but I don't think pinning Nashville airport cop actions on Southwest is fair.

Fact checkers rate Scot's last post as questionable but generally in support of top down narrative.

Southwest called the cops on their own passengers.

That's a bad look.

I don't mind flying WN for low-stakes trips like this one, but I wouldn't use them for business purposes, particularly after our experiences this past week.  They are just not ready for serious action.

Today I filled out the various forms on the WN website, three in total.

First: Cancel existing ticket, request refund for the canceled portion of our flights.  No promise we will get anything other than "flight credits".  This seems like a violation of DOT regs, but the web page worked, and I did receive an email with a claim number.

Second:  Submit request for reimbursement for expenses associated with the canceled flight.  No promises, just an assertion that they will review it and get back to us.  The web page seemed to work, it did take the uploaded copies of my receipts, and again I received an email with a claim number.

Third:  Place a claim for our lost luggage.  After completing the entire set of details about our flight and luggage, the web page had no "submit" button.  Oops.  I didn't like any of those bags anyways.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

35 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Third:  Place a claim for our lost luggage.  After completing the entire set of details about our flight and luggage, the web page had no "submit" button.  Oops.  I didn't like any of those bags anyways.

Thus the sequel movie to cocaine bear was born.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Southwest calling the police on their own customers is disgraceful.

At a minimum they shouldve been free of charge shuttled to hotels, fares refunded, vouchers and penalty comps given out and been free to stay at SW paid for rooms till SW honored the contract to move these customers and their luggage to their destinations.

They dont get to take peoples money, abandon them and their luggage and then wash hands for any responsibility.

The sanctions for SW's behavior here needs to be BREATHTAKING, certainly in the Billions in penalties.

Eta: 

Alternatives to driving or flying

According to an ICCT report, on comparable trips in the United States, a plane gets 43 miles per gallon per person; this is less efficient than trains or cars, which get 51 mpg and 53 mpg per person, respectively.Sep 7, 2020

[Lord of Oop North]

That comparison is only true for trips in the 300-500 mile range. Anything beyond that and the fuel efficiency of cars vs planes changes a lot. A big portion of airline fuel is consumed during takeoff, landing & taxiing, so plane flights become more efficient over long distances. This is why many nations are attempting to cut back on frequent short haul flights in favour of expanded rail routes. Buses are more efficient even than trains, but you run into road capacity issues as trains can haul more passengers per hour.

Long haul train trips are also not very efficient. Here in Canada, we know that VIA Rail's Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver has significantly  more emissions than the equivalent flight. This is partially due to the fact that it is also hauling kitchens, food, bedrooms, etc.

Also, the 53 pmpg for cars will change based on your number of occupants and vehicle type.

Also from the ICCT (https://theicct.org/choose-your-own-adventure-by-plane-car-train-or-bus/) there is a table that shows more detail based on various vehicle types with various occupant loads. On that chart you will see that almost any solo car trip is less efficient than a short haul plane flight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

22 minutes ago, Lord of Oop North said:

Also, the 53 pmpg for cars will change based on your number of occupants and vehicle type.

No kidding, the sky is blue sometimes as well.

Do you really imagine that wouldnt be intuitive to anyone?

"Hey our  VW with 4 passengers was cheaper than than my solo cross country in the Semi. Wow who wouldve thunk it!"

[Lord of Oop North]

15 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

No kidding, the sky is blue sometimes as well.

Do you really imagine that wouldnt be intuitive to anyone?

"Hey our  VW with 4 passengers was cheaper than than my solo cross country in the Semi. Wow who wouldve thunk it!"

Thanks for that, very productive.

It should be intuitive but when you present statistics to the general population - it is certainly NOT always intuitive.

For example, the numbers you posted note nothing of the fact that it is for trips in the 300-500 mile range.

The next thing to remember is that in most countries, 5-20% of the population fill-up approx 50-70% of all flights, and these people travel solo the majority of the time. So in most cases, driving is not more efficient at all.

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

Absolutely horrid accident to an American Airlines groundsworker.
 
 Worker dies after being sucked into jet engine at Alabama airport 
 
https://nypost.com/2023/01/02/worker-dies-after-being-sucked-into-jet-engine-at-alabama-airport?

[Filippa Eilhart]

I've had my flight cancelled while in terminal a couple times. The first time they led us out of the terminal, said the tickets gates are closed and left us to find our own accomodation in London on New Year's Eve eve. It took us hours to manage to get in touch with BA customer service and get our flight rebooked. The second time the flight was rebooked auomatically but the rest was the same (except we were stuck between border control and terminal so we needed a special manager sign off to be let out). I thought it was a usual practice to remove people with cancelled flights from terminal.

[Corvinus85]

Not just about Southwest, but air travel in the US continues to be a shitshow, with the latest being a FAA computer outage this morning that caused the FAA to halt every single morning flight in the country. FFS

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/us-faa-says-flight-personnel-alert-system-not-processing-updates-after-outage-2023-01-11/

[Wilbur]

I received a notification from WN that they had approved my reimbursement request, which is nice.

However, they are using a subsidiary of Paypal to disburse the payments, and they want to send me the money via Zelle.  It's two grand, but even if it were two bucks, you would think that a Fortune 500 company would use a transaction system that includes fraud protection or isn't a magnet for scams.

Overall, it has been a bush league experience with WN.

[Jace, Extat]

3 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Not just about Southwest, but air travel in the US continues to be a shitshow, with the latest being a FAA computer outage this morning that caused the FAA to halt every single morning flight in the country. FFS

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/us-faa-says-flight-personnel-alert-system-not-processing-updates-after-outage-2023-01-11/

Don't panic, guys! 

I'm sure our fifty year old transit technologies are utterly impenetrable to the intelligence and intervention services of nation-states that don't lurch from Boondoggle to DumpsterDisaster and call themselves brilliant for the effort. 

Don't be afraid. I'm here for you. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Wilbur said:

I received a notification from WN that they had approved my reimbursement request, which is nice.

However, they are using a subsidiary of Paypal to disburse the payments, and they want to send me the money via Zelle.  It's two grand, but even if it were two bucks, you would think that a Fortune 500 company would use a transaction system that includes fraud protection or isn't a magnet for scams.

Overall, it has been a bush league experience with WN.

Could be worse. What if they tried to pay you back in crypto? 

[Corvinus85]

2 hours ago, Wilbur said:

I received a notification from WN that they had approved my reimbursement request, which is nice.

However, they are using a subsidiary of Paypal to disburse the payments, and they want to send me the money via Zelle.  It's two grand, but even if it were two bucks, you would think that a Fortune 500 company would use a transaction system that includes fraud protection or isn't a magnet for scams.

Overall, it has been a bush league experience with WN.

Doesn't freaking Wells Fargo use Zelle too?

[Wilbur]

6 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Doesn't freaking Wells Fargo use Zelle too?

Yes, Zelle is a product of WF, JPMorgan, PNC, BoA, US Bank, et al.

But note that they use it as a means of keeping transactions at an arm's length away from having the transactions enter the legal space where they would be required to include fraud insurance.  While simultaneously earning fees for this service.

Which is one of the reasons every Nigerian Prince, crypto bro, Russian cracker and minor social influencer you can imagine would like you to use it to supplement their income.  Wells Fargo can charge you a micro-fee for using a service they don't actually have to insure or face any claims against in case of a fraud.  I would be particularly concerned about man-in-the-middle attacks on the service, given anecdotal evidence about tips made in public places that ended up being exploited.

The big four have put a lot of money into marketing Zelle as the service you should use to pay your babysitter and pass along tips and so on, but I think it really is intrinsically less safe than traditionally middle-class means of transacting small exchanges.  Cash is no less safe, and perhaps safer, since you can at least chase down and jump someone who defrauds you for cash if you realize it soon enough.

Also, if Wells Fargo is involved, most of us should be suspicious right off the bat given their long string of criminal and civil suits over the last two decades!