How do the Faceless Men NOT know about Arya

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

Like she isn’t being sly at all. She straight up violated their rules by murdering the old man and Daeron. She obviously hasn’t let go of her identity as Arya Stark. 
 

I can’t see how an organization like the FM don’t notice it. So it makes me think they have some kind of plan for her. Otherwise they’d stop training her and kill her.

[Nevets]

Oh, I think they have a plan.  If you look at her training, it is the sort of thing you would give a spy or undercover operative.  Cultivating sources, discovering and reporting information, playing a part, blending in, etc.  

I think they want her as a source of assistance, help, information, cover-ups, money, etc. in Westeros.  As a scion of a major family, she is well placed to help them.

They may also be planning to send her on a mission to discover information; about Daenerys for example.  Or they could be stringing her along until they decide what to do with her.  They sure as hell aren't training her to be an assassin.  She knows little more about killing than when she arrived.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

49 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Oh, I think they have a plan.  If you look at her training, it is the sort of thing you would give a spy or undercover operative.  Cultivating sources, discovering and reporting information, playing a part, blending in, etc.  

I think they want her as a source of assistance, help, information, cover-ups, money, etc. in Westeros.  As a scion of a major family, she is well placed to help them.

They may also be planning to send her on a mission to discover information; about Daenerys for example.  Or they could be stringing her along until they decide what to do with her.  They sure as hell aren't training her to be an assassin.  She knows little more about killing than when she arrived.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they send her after Cersei. Considering how Cersei is refusing to even entertain paying the Iron Bank back, they may send Arya after her. Despite her lack of devotion to the FM, she would be personally motivated to go after Cersei. And if she gets caught, the IB and FM could safety disavow her? Maybe?

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

10 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if they send her after Cersei. Considering how Cersei is refusing to even entertain paying the Iron Bank back, they may send Arya after her. Despite her lack of devotion to the FM, she would be personally motivated to go after Cersei. And if she gets caught, the IB and FM could safety disavow her? Maybe?

I can't help but suspect that her ongoing identity crisis will climax with the order to murder Jeyne Poole and then assume Jeyne's Arya Stark identity in order to assassinate someone associated with the story in the North (could be that Jeyne's face becomes available by happenstance instead of through the actions of Arya). Perhaps it's the LC of the night's watch, perhaps it's Ramsey or Stannis or Roose.

I don't think she'll be ordered to kill Cersei because there's no personal conflict there for her.  What could be a better outcome for Arya than the FM directing her to kill people that are on her list already? I think she'll be required to do the hard work a little closer to home.

[astarkchoice]

Shes a kid.

Theres plenty of time to slowly bleed her of her old connections and have her fully as one of them, she has  fantastic potential ...very few will arrive at their doorsteps with her skills and education.

[Nevets]

On 12/29/2022 at 1:47 PM, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if they send her after Cersei. Considering how Cersei is refusing to even entertain paying the Iron Bank back, they may send Arya after her. Despite her lack of devotion to the FM, she would be personally motivated to go after Cersei. And if she gets caught, the IB and FM could safety disavow her? Maybe?

 

On 12/29/2022 at 2:06 PM, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I can't help but suspect that her ongoing identity crisis will climax with the order to murder Jeyne Poole and then assume Jeyne's Arya Stark identity in order to assassinate someone associated with the story in the North (could be that Jeyne's face becomes available by happenstance instead of through the actions of Arya). Perhaps it's the LC of the night's watch, perhaps it's Ramsey or Stannis or Roose.

I don't think she'll be ordered to kill Cersei because there's no personal conflict there for her.  What could be a better outcome for Arya than the FM directing her to kill people that are on her list already? I think she'll be required to do the hard work a little closer to home.

What part of "she has no training in actually killing people" do you guys not understand?  The FM aren't going to send an untrained apprentice after anybody important.  Also, Jeyne's whip marks have to play out, and not because she's dead.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Nevets
Clarity

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

4 minutes ago, Nevets said:

What part of "she has training in actually killing people" do you guys not understand? 

I guess the whole thing. What are you trying to say?

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

8 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Also, Jeyne's whip marks have to play out, and not because she's dead.

Sure, their absence will be proof that the assassin isn't really Arya Stark.

[Nevets]

31 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I guess the whole thing. What are you trying to say?

The Faceless Men aren't going to use an untrained girl to target anyone important when they have perfectly good, experienced agents available.  

And it's going to take a lot longer to adequately train her than is left in the story.  If GRRM were intent on making her an assassin, she would be a lot further along in her training.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

Just now, Nevets said:

The Faceless Men aren't going to use an untrained girl to target anyone important when they have perfectly good, experienced agents available.  

And it's going to take a lot longer to adequately train her than is left in the story.  If GRRM were intent on making her an assassin, she would be a lot further along in her training.

Thanks.

Naw, they've already got her doing the insurance salesman. Anyway the assumption that they have 'perfectly good experienced agents available' may or may not bear out. As far as how much time there is, when he sent her there Martin had 5 years for her to develop. What was his line about ditching the gap, something to the effect of "if a 12 year old has to conquer the world then so be it'? I don't  think there's any reason to believe that the same mentality won't apply to Arya's truncated training.

 

[Nevets]

1 hour ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Thanks.

Naw, they've already got her doing the insurance salesman. Anyway the assumption that they have 'perfectly good experienced agents available' may or may not bear out. As far as how much time there is, when he sent her there Martin had 5 years for her to develop. What was his line about ditching the gap, something to the effect of "if a 12 year old has to conquer the world then so be it'? I don't  think there's any reason to believe that the same mentality won't apply to Arya's truncated training.

 

Insurance Man was a nobody, a comparatively easy target, and even then she needed help.

If they don't have experienced agents available, what kind of professional organization are they, and how have they survived this long?  We've seen multiple people (well disguised) at meetings, all of whom should be better than Arya, who knows essentially nothing.

Given that the 5 year gap has been scrapped and thus there is less time for training, she should be on the fast track, having already learned lots of useful skills, and well on her way to completion.  She's not.  Which suggests she will never become an assassin, and that may have been the case from the beginning.  

By the way, I suspect the 12-year-old that will save the world is Bran, not Arya.  Arya is almost 12 now, and I suspect the story has a couple of years more to run.

[Castellan]

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

 

By the way, I suspect the 12-year-old that will save the world is Bran, not Arya.  Arya is almost 12 now, and I suspect the story has a couple of years more to run.

I don't have a particular view but you made me think and although I agree there may be a couple more years of action, I think the series might jump ahead at the end with most of the major characters being dead and turning into legend and a younger generation making tentative moves, possibly just as foolish as their forebears. It's only a Dream of Spring.

 

[Aebram]

I've wondered about this myself from time to time. Arya thinks that the Faceless Men don't know that she still has Needle hidden away, or that she can see in the dark by warging cats, or that she has a psychic connection to Nymeria. But is she correct? The FM have centuries of experience with magic.

I think it's possible that at some point, she will decide to escape from (or desert?) the FM and go back to Westeros. But I wonder if she will get away with it. The FM could easily find her and kill her, if they want to ... Or could they? Have they ever had to kill one of their own? Can a Faceless Man defend himself against other Faceless Men? 

[Nevets]

13 minutes ago, Aebram said:

I've wondered about this myself from time to time. Arya thinks that the Faceless Men don't know that she still has Needle hidden away, or that she can see in the dark by warging cats, or that she has a psychic connection to Nymeria. But is she correct? The FM have centuries of experience with magic.

I think it's possible that at some point, she will decide to escape from (or desert?) the FM and go back to Westeros. But I wonder if she will get away with it. The FM could easily find her and kill her, if they want to ... Or could they? Have they ever had to kill one of their own? Can a Faceless Man defend himself against other Faceless Men? 

I think they may induce her to leave, or push her out, but that they will extract a price for leaving without consequence.  My guess is they will want her to be available to assist as necessary.  I think there may be quite a few of these types around.  I doubt they will waste a potential asset when they can use her instead.

I sometimes wonder if she will spend time with a courtesan learning to be a Lady (political influence, appearance, and the like).

I expect at some time she will run into Jeyne Poole, and this will lead to her return to Westeros.

[LynnS]

I think it's a fair bet that Arya's warging and skinchanging abilities have value to them.  Certainly for spying and information gathering.  I'm expecting her to maintain her identity and act  independently.   She might even be contacted by Bran while in a wolf dream like Jon. and take her orders directly from the many-faced god.

It would be ironic if Arya is instrumental in bringing down the House of lack and White, in the end, as well.  I'm not expecting her to survive, except in a second life, as Nymeria:

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Arya I

You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers."

 

 

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

14 hours ago, Nevets said:

Insurance Man was a nobody, a comparatively easy target, and even then she needed help.

I disagree with this characterization. Broad daylight kill in an open market of a professionally guarded individual.

Nobody does anything all by themselves. Jaqen H'gar would have burned to death if a little girl hadn't saved him. 

14 hours ago, Nevets said:

Given that the 5 year gap has been scrapped and thus there is less time for training, she should be on the fast track, having already learned lots of useful skills, and well on her way to completion.  She's not.  Which suggests she will never become an assassin, and that may have been the case from the beginning.  

How do you know whether or not Arya is on a fast track? How long does a faceless man usually take to train? 

14 hours ago, Nevets said:

If they don't have experienced agents available, what kind of professional organization are they, and how have they survived this long?  We've seen multiple people (well disguised) at meetings, all of whom should be better than Arya, who knows essentially nothing.

I expect that given how widely known they are there is plenty of demand for their services.  

14 hours ago, Nevets said:

By the way, I suspect the 12-year-old that will save the world is Bran, not Arya.  Arya is almost 12 now, and I suspect the story has a couple of years more to run.

Yeah possibly. I wasn't suggesting Arya was going to save the world, just that she would do things as a child that the author had originally intended she would do as a young adult. The same logic applies to Bran, Jon, Sansa and all of the kids. I think he used the term 'save the world' euphemistically.

[Nevets]

On 12/29/2022 at 2:35 PM, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I guess the whole thing. What are you trying to say?

I accidentally left out a word.  I meant to say she has no training in killing, not that she has training.  Very sorry about the confusion.

[kissdbyfire]

Who says they don’t? 

[Aebram]

Uh-oh, I think they know.

Quote

 

“Yes. I know that you’re the one who has been hitting me.” Her stick flashed out, and cracked against his fingers, sending his own stick clattering to the floor. The priest winced and snatched his hand back. “And how could a blind girl know that?”

I saw you. “I gave you three. I don’t need to give you four.” Maybe on the morrow she would tell him about the cat that had followed her home last night from Pynto’s, the cat that was hiding in the rafters, looking down on them. Or maybe not. If he could have secrets, so could she. (Dance 45)

 

If she suddenly acquired the ability to see in the dark, that's a strong hint that she has some skills or powers that she didn't learn from them.

[Gilbert Green]

Just because they are evil does not mean they are omniscient. 

Maybe they know, maybe they don't.

If they know, whether and to what extent they care is an open question.  Yes, she has violated their rules  But it is not as though they are actually against murder, or anything like that.