Valyrian Succession rules

[1000th Lord Commander]

Hey all, I'm sure I remember the Valyrian rules of inheritance going to the oldest child, not oldest son. But I can't seem to find a source for it. Can anyone help?

[Lord Varys]

15 hours ago, 1000th Lord Commander said:

Hey all, I'm sure I remember the Valyrian rules of inheritance going to the oldest child, not oldest son. But I can't seem to find a source for it. Can anyone help?

Not sure what you mean by 'Valyrian rules of inheritance'. The Valyrian Freehold was no feudal society. There may have been informal or official heads of houses (like in ancient Rome, say) but that wouldn't be the same as a feudal lordship or title. You might have 'a family/house boss', but all the other family members would have lands and property and fortunes of their own.

We see how the Rogare estate is split up among Lysandro Rogare's legitimate and illegitimate children, so the chances that the Valyrian estates were handled similiarly to those of the Lyseni is not unlikely.

In regards to the lordship of Dragonstone prior to the Conquest it seemed that it mostly passed from father to son (although there was one co-ruling sibling couple and three successions from brother to brother rather than father to son (or daughter)). So far we have no idea whether Aerys or Baelon or Daemion Targaryen pulled a Maegor and seized Dragonstone by pushing aside or killing their nephews and nieces, or whether their predecessors all just died childless.

The crucial Dragonstonian precedent for 'males come first' is only Aegon the Conqueror becoming Lord of Dragonstone instead of his elder sister Visenya. How good of a precedent that is we don't know, since we have no clue whether any other Lords of Dragonstone had elder sisters or sister-wives. Daenys the Dreamer is said to have been Aenar's maiden daughter when she had her crucial vision about the Doom ... which could imply that she was only her brother-husband Gaemon's younger sister.

Although Elaena Targaryen, the sister-wife and co-ruler of Lord Aegon of Dragonstone, could have been Aegon's elder sister. But we don't know so far.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Lord Varys

[direpupy]

10 hours ago, 1000th Lord Commander said:

Hey all, I'm sure I remember the Valyrian rules of inheritance going to the oldest child, not oldest son. But I can't seem to find a source for it. Can anyone help?

I think your confusing the Valyrian's with the Rhoynar who are as far as i know they only people who did this and are the reason this is practised in Dorne.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

20 hours ago, 1000th Lord Commander said:

Hey all, I'm sure I remember the Valyrian rules of inheritance going to the oldest child, not oldest son. But I can't seem to find a source for it. Can anyone help?

The Valyrians had a more even regards between females and males.  Their women are not necessarily at home doing needlepoint.  They were a part of the administration of the family business, whatever that may be.  Visenya and Rhaenys were very involved in the running of Dragonstone and later of Westeros.  Aegon was likely in the lead because he had Balerion. 

[Daena the Defiant]

11 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

  Aegon was likely in the lead because he had Balerion. 

Wasn't he just the eldest?

[The Lord of the Crossing]

1 minute ago, Daena the Defiant said:

Wasn't he just the eldest?

He was not.  Boys are bolder by nature and he got up the nerve to hop on Balerion before Visenya could.  Maybe Visenya just preferred Vhagar.  

[Gilbert Green]

11 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The Valyrians had a more even regards between females and males. 

I think it has more to do with dragons being a great equalizer.

Still, putting women on the front lines is not the best way for a family, or a house, or a nation, to prosper - partly because women are less strong, but mainly because women are less expendable.  And the Head of a House was usually expected to defend it with his own body, rather than using other people as canon fodder.  That, at least, is the nobler ideal.  The Head of House is like the captain that goes down with his ship.  He has the right of command, but not ultimately for his own benefit.

[The Jingo]

On 12/29/2022 at 6:22 PM, 1000th Lord Commander said:

Hey all, I'm sure I remember the Valyrian rules of inheritance going to the oldest child, not oldest son. But I can't seem to find a source for it. Can anyone help?

The Valyrians practiced male preference primogeniture. We have references to dragon lords building harems and practicing polygamy, with no evidence of a female equivalent. There's no in text reference to grand dragon queens with a hundred husbands. 

And I should remind you that all known rulers of Dragonstone were men, even before the Conquest. It was Aegon who ruled, not Visenya. 

[Ser Lepus]

We don't really know about Valyrian rules of inheritance. We know how the Targaryen did things, but they lived isolated in Dragonstone for around a century after the Fall of Valyria, so we don't know if the Dragonlords of old followed the same rules or if the Targaryens were influenced by Andal customs... Also, when brother marries sister, it doesn't matter that much if there is a preference of men over woman as heirs... the son and daughter are going to marry and become co-lords, anyways...

 

[James Arryn]

Among the things we do not know is whether the Targs continued pre-existing ‘rules’ for succession after the doom, invented new ones, absorbed the hybrid versions the Velaryons and Celtigars may have established earlier, or what. In that it’s supposed to reflect the Norman Conauest, my best guess would be that there were no real rules for succession in place, but that it got worked out crisis by crisis. Probably during a ruler’s lifetime everyone acted like that ruler’s choice would be determinative, but as in real history, ruler’s influence usually mostly dies with the ruler if there are any other claimants with the power to back it up. 

Edited January 3 by James Arryn