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Alternate History: the Late Lord Frey


Alden Rothack

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5 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

alternate timeline of events where Lord Walder dies during the time of the Greyjoy Rebellion, what are the likely effects on the opening stages of the WO5Ks

Perhaps Stevron would’ve stayed behind at the Twins. He’d probably try to swing the Arya marriage, but he didn’t seem the ambitious type. So he probably not ask for Robb to marry a Frey. Without the breaking of that oath, and the fact Stevron isn’t a complete bastard like his father, there is a good chance the Freys would still be loyal to the Starks.

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23 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

Perhaps Stevron would’ve stayed behind at the Twins. He’d probably try to swing the Arya marriage, but he didn’t seem the ambitious type. So he probably not ask for Robb to marry a Frey. Without the breaking of that oath, and the fact Stevron isn’t a complete bastard like his father, there is a good chance the Freys would still be loyal to the Starks.

Stevron would likely offer marriages for Robb, Edmure and Arya because its good for him and not a bad idea to tie them to their overlords and probably the best chance for Arya outside the north itself (Dorne risks making her a hostage to their political aims.)

Robb might even go for it if hes not married before the end of the war and Edmure hasn't married Roslin already

Stevron will likely be too busy decimating his relations to betray Robb without cause.

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Freys loyally follow Edmure's (dumb) war plans and get massacred beneath Riverrun, though with an additional 4000 men behind his back, Edmure may actually deal Jaime a good blow this time, weakening his force considerably. Robb is allowed to cross without any payment exacted. Robb would likely still divide his force but this time since he lacks 4000 Freys, he'll still rush to Jaime's now considerably weaker force with his horse but will have foot to follow, leaving in the eastern bank a decoy force that is numerous enough to fool and fixate Tywin for a while but nowhere near strong enough to engage him. With no Frey marriage to consider, Catelyn(she's somewhat of a political animal thanks to Hoster) would immediately strike to Bitterbridge as soon as Renly dies to offer a marriage to Margaery, which the Tyrells will take. After all, Mace wants to make Margaery a queen and they took the Lannister offer when Lannisters were at their weakest because to them Stannis is no alternative and this time around it comes from the Starks whose star, or rather moon, was waxing towards a full moon. In fact since Robb is a king available for marriage, they may even take the offer to Robb themselves.

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Stevron is said to be much more reasonable and polite .

With walder dead hoster has no hatred of his heir and following tully tradition will move to strenghen his hold over riverlands by marriage

being his liege lord ,older and probably far more charismatic (based on impressions of hoster) its almost a lock hoster pressures the new lord of the twins and his son for a marriage pact ,.edmure is married off to the most desirable frey candidate asap!

Opening stages perhaps with the weasely freys in his ear for decades edmure is a little more cunning and doesnt fall for tywin opening gambit with the mountain..the riverlands full force meets the westerlands invading force from a strong defensive position and sends them reeling, leaving the mountain to be hunted down later at will!

OR hes still a dope but as the twins lands are far away feom ser gregor and  safe almost  the entire frey force is there to meet the opening westerlands attack group , jamie will probably still triumph but at a harder cost as will the battle under the walls of riverrun.

Robb will not get any b.s from the freys st the twins thus can implement his opening brilliant  campaign moves much faster

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Given that Stevron Frey was probably murdered in the canon by his own grandson, I’d say Stevron would have been murdered anyway, whether he was Lord of the Twins or not. Black Walder is probably thanking Lady Stoneheart for doing his job for him.

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10 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Given that Stevron Frey was probably murdered in the canon by his own grandson, I’d say Stevron would have been murdered anyway, whether he was Lord of the Twins or not. Black Walder is probably thanking Lady Stoneheart for doing his job for him.

Black Walder got away with that because Stevron wasn't Lord of the Crossing, Walder was and he wanted him for his revenge plans more than he wanted him punished for murdering his grandfather, if Stevron was Lord then nobody is protecting Black Walder from the wrath of all the relations hes slighted over the years except his father and grandfather

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6 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

Black Walder got away with that because Stevron wasn't Lord of the Crossing, Walder was and he wanted him for his revenge plans more than he wanted him punished for murdering his grandfather, if Stevron was Lord then nobody is protecting Black Walder from the wrath of all the relations hes slighted over the years except his father and grandfather

This plus stevron would be in a much stronger position given he'd have landed edmure tully as groom for a frey bride and an overall better 'pr' for the frey name 

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2 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

This plus stevron would be in a much stronger position given he'd have landed edmure tully as groom for a frey bride and an overall better 'pr' for the frey name 

I doubt Black Walder gets the chance, Stevron as Lord probably puts him and all the other freys he doesn't like or trust in the vanguard to either bring honor to their house or die in the attempt

Plus Stevron is connected to the Royces, Swans, Lyddens and Waynwoods, even if we discount Lydden being half Royce and connected by marriage to the Swans and Waynwoods isn't a bad thing

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6 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

Stevron would’ve been such a good lord. If he survived I could see the Red Wedding never happening.

I agree, even if Stevron was going to betray Robb I don't think he would do it that way.

arrange for Robb to be ambushed and killed along with his guards somewhere else I could see if the situation was desparate enough but breaking guest right no, only someone like Walder is spiteful enough to doom his house over a personal slight

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1 minute ago, Alden Rothack said:

I agree, even if Stevron was going to betray Robb I don't think he would do it that way.

arrange for Robb to be ambushed and killed along with his guards somewhere else I could see if the situation was desparate enough but breaking guest right no, only someone like Walder is spiteful enough to doom his house over a personal slight

I think worst case, he would’ve publicly aligned with Lannisters. 

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3 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

I think worst case, he would’ve publicly aligned with Lannisters. 

only if Robb still breaks the bethrothal, Stevron has no ties to the lannisters and can't exoect to benefit any more than staying loyal to Edmure

Tywin can't take the twins with what he has in time to not get royally buggered by Blackwood and Mallister

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