Lots of people would do exactly the same as what Cersei did to Robert and Ned if they were in her shoes. The story is just mostly presented from Stark POV.

[boltons are sick]

Just now, Craving Peaches said:

I judge her for incest and fraud.

While I agree that incest is disgusting, this is not something that should be punishable by death if it's done between two consenting people. They just need to be separated from one another. Also, the reason why Cersei and her family were threatened with execution isn't even the incest because even she slept with someone who isn't her brother, she and her family would still face the same doom.

As for fraud, what do you think would have happened if she revealed that her children aren't actually Robert's? They would be executed because she would be punished for having an affair which is the thing you claim you have no problem with and she had to protect her secret by lying about the parentage of her children. The reason why she did it wasn't to steal the throne in some way, but to preserve herself and her family's safety which is an understadable motivation.

[Son of Man]

1 hour ago, boltons are sick said:

First, let's talk about the sexist double standatds regarding Westerosi marriages which are the reason why Cersei is framed as a villain in the first place even though her actions in the first book are very understandable and I would argue that a lot of people would do them if they were in her place.

We see that Robert constantly cheats on Cersei with countless women and no one bats an eye. Meanwhile, if Cersei sleeps with a man outside of her marriage, it is considered a treason and she woud be executed. The reason for this is sexism and if you support a woman being executed over having an affair outside her marriage (because I have seen a lot of people who think that Cersei should be executed for commiting "treason" against her husband, then you are just supporting the sexist norms of the society because the story is framed from Ned's POV. If Robert is allowed to have multiple affairs without any consequences, then Cersei should also be allowed to have an affair without being labeled a "traitor" for it.

We live in the 21st century where we have multiple cases of men killing their women for having an affair with another man and all those men are then sent to jail because killing a woman over something like that is no longer considered justifiable (except in some Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, but nobody cares about their opinion). For those reasons, anyone who expresses the opinion that Cersei deserves to be executed for having an affair with Jaime, but have no problem with Robert having affairs with multiple women, should really reevaluate their moral values because the only countries that still hold such values are Saudi Arabia and co while killing women for cheating is no longer considered justifiable in progressive countries.

The other argument is that she tried passing off her own bastards as Robert, but I have to say, so what? If she revealed to anyone that those children are not Robert's, she an her entire family would have been executed, so it's pretty understandable why she wouldn't do it. The female body works differently than the male, so she can't just pretend that those babies coming out of her vagina are not hers like Robert does with his own bastards. Cersei didn't do it to usurp the throne, she did it because she didn't want a man who constantly treated her like shit and raped her on top of that, to impregnate her which is a perfectly reasonable wish, but most fans frame even that decision as some diabolical machination from the "evil" Cersei to enact her schemes.

Plus, do readers from the 21st century really care if a bastard rules the Iron Throne instead of a trueborn son of Robert. Imagine for a moment if Joffrey was actually a good and wise person who would be better suited for the throne than someone like Stannis (not saying he is, just imagine it), would you have a trouble with him ruling just because he is a bastard and not a legitimate heir. Let's not forget that Robert himself also didn't inherit the throne, he usurped it from the Targaryen dynasty and took it for himself, so it's not like he has moral highground over Cersei in that regard either.

Finally, we come to the fact that Robert raped Cersei repeatedly and she is clearly traumatized by the experience and a lot of her negative qualities stem or at least were worsened by the rape she had to endure. This makes me even less inclined to judge Cersei for what she did because when her spouse who is supposed to treat her more nicely constantly rapes her and she can't escape her abusive marriage, if she found any comfort in Jaime, then good for her, I don't judge her for this, at all.

The reason why Cersei killed Robert is justifiable because if she didn't do it, her entire family would have been executed for something that's not even considered a crime nowadays and is only considered a crime in Westerosi society because almost everyone is a sexist prick and the reason why so many fans consider this to be a "crime" is because they themselves absorb some of the Westerosi sexism since it's narrated from Ned's POV or they themselves have some sexist attitudes towards this subject. Also, if somebody rapes a person, I am totally fine with the rape victim killing the rapist.

And about Cersei not taking Ned's offer, seen from her perspective: Ned’s offer was more a threat than a way out. And that’s why it was stupid for him to go to warn her. He said so himself “wherever you go, Robert’s wrath will follow you”. To her, he might as well had said “I’m going to turn you and your family in now, so you better run and hide before that bounty catch up on you. And it will eventually.”. She would have to live on the run, with her children, being in constant danger of being caught or recognised. Shamed and humiliated by name, with hardly any power or protection against the crown/Robert’s men. Her best bet was to get rid of the threats before the damage was done, and claim the power. There wasn’t really another way out in her mind. “In the game of thrones, you win or die. There is no middleground”

Also, in this situation if you look more closely, Cersei was actually the one trying to keep peace in the Seven Kingdoms even if it was ultimately for self-serving purposes. She reminded Ned that if he exposed her secret, the Seven Kingdoms would go to war because Tywin would not be happy with the result. Let's face it, Ned wasn't doing this because of some believe that he was helping the people of the kingdoms by trying to expose Cersei's secret because even he admits that if he does it, the people of the kingdoms would suffer through war. Also, he doesn't believe that Joffrey would be a bad ruler because at this point he doesn't even know him. So, why does he do it? Because his sense of honor wouldn't allow the Seven Kingdoms to be ruled by anyone other than the legitimate heir of the King. That's the whole reason why he is willing to risk a war and that's why I think that the fans who look at the conflict between Ned and Cersei as purely black and white are really wrong about the whole situation and they just look at it that way mostly because it's presented from Ned's POV. There was even a post about "the true villains of ASOIAF" here. While I wouldn't call Ned a "villain" at all, this post does bring up the exact same points I am writing about Ned and how his decision to try and imprison Cersei and her children is not really motivated by feeling that they are a threat to the kingdom and its people but because he just doesn't want the kingdom to be ruled by anyone who is not the legitimate heir to the throne even if in the long run no one will know the difference and he decision indirectly dooms countless innocent people who would die because of the ensuing war. Also, Cersei actually offered him to just return to Winterfell and forget about this, but he still refused and tried to have Cersei and her kids arrested which would have resulted in their eventual executions if Cersei hadn't acted first, but a lot of fans forget about that.

Just to be clear, I am not saying that Cersei is "good" or that she is not a cruel and vindictive person, so you don't have to come up with a list of all the bad things she has done in an attempt to convince me that she is "bad". I am just saying that I don't blame her for her actions during her marriage with Robert and in the first book because she was repeatedly raped and accused of a "crime" that is only considered a crime because of the sexist standards of her society, I can't blame her for fighting against this and trying to protect her family against an unjust execution. I am just saying that a lot of fans would actually see the logic behind that if they didn't constanty frame Cersei as "the villain" and didn't accept everything that was presented from Ned's POV for granted just because he is a likeable character and also a lot of people would understandably oppose the people who are trying to execute their families and that if they use a little critical thinking to analyse the whole situation instead of just accepting everything Ned and Robert do as morally pure because one is the main protagonist of the first book and a likeable character while the other is his friend.

That is a lot to take in but on the main point of your post, yes.  At that point in the story, yes.  Many would have done the same if they were in Cersei's position.  But most people will not put themselves in the same position.  Most women do not cuckold their kings though.  Robert, Cersei, and Jaime are awful human beings.  Cersei is a woman of sin but maybe it was right to set up the death of Robert to protect her innocent children.  This took place after Robert sent the assassin to attempt the murder of Daenerys.  So I guess Robert was not undeserving of death. 

[boltons are sick]

12 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Cersei had the chance to flee to the Free cities, protecting her children and harming no one. Instead she chose to harm people. At no point was she forced to harm people to protect her children. The reason she didn't flee to the Free Cities was because she didn't want to lose her power and influence. She cares about her power most of all, more than her children. Killing Ned and Robert was about preserving her power first.

Even Ned Stark thinks that if she fled to the Free Cities, she would be hunted down by assassins to kill her and her children and she would have a lot less power to protect herself. From her point of view, her best bet was to stay in King's Landing and eliminate the people that pose a threat to them.

 Also, if you think about it, Ned's words probably sounded more like threat to Cersei than a genuine act of mercy ("you must run away with your entire family and give up your comfortable lives because I am going to tell Robert your secret and he is going to hunt down your entire family for the rest of your lives, so you won't be safe even if you run away"), so it's understandable why she doesn't feel a lot of gratitude.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

Can we just point out how stupid her plot to assassinate Robert was and the fact that it worked is nothing short of a miracle.

[boltons are sick]

10 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

Can we just point out how stupid her plot to assassinate Robert was and the fact that it worked is nothing short of a miracle.

Yeah, it's stupid, but I think it wasn't supposed to be viewed as stupid when GRRM wrote that part because Cersei at that point isn't as mentally unstable as in AFFC and this is just a plot hole because the writer didn't think it through.

[EggBlue]

Cersei and Robert were both monsters . what this beast to that other beast does not justifies the latter's atrocities . 

[Alden Rothack]

cersei's affair is treason because her children are not the heirs to the throne

its not sexist because its nothing directly to do with cersei being a woman and robert being a man

if Danerys becomes queen and has a affair resulting in children then it would not be treason because its not altering the secession by means of fraud

[frenin]

1 hour ago, boltons are sick said:

The other argument is that she tried passing off her own bastards as Robert, but I have to say, so what?

I very much doubt people care about her  having an affair.

Passing her bastards as trueborn is the problem and the problem is that it causes dynastic problems that lead to civil war.

 

1 hour ago, boltons are sick said:

There wasn’t really another way out in her mind. “In the game of thrones, you win or die. There is no middleground”

So Cersei would rather go down as Queen, dragging her children than to run and save the children.

That speaks volumes of Cersei, not in a good way tho.

 

1 hour ago, boltons are sick said:

The reason why Cersei killed Robert is justifiable because if she didn't do it, her entire family would have been executed for something that's not even considered a crime nowadays and is only considered a crime in Westerosi

Some british folk correct me but passing one's bastard as heir to the throne isn't a crime in Britain?

 

1 hour ago, boltons are sick said:

but to persue some measure of love in her loveless marriage,

You don't need to pass your bastards as trueborn and start a war to do so.

 

1 hour ago, boltons are sick said:

Cersei was actually the one trying to keep peace in the Seven Kingdoms even if it was ultimately for self-serving purposes.

There was no peace possible.

The secret was already out and the minute Robert died, the claimants would start killing each other.

 

 

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

I wouldn't go around killing Robert's innocent babies, that's for sure. Multiple other women are in the same position as Cersei in terms of being in a forced marriage, and they don't go around killing children or killing their husband. Incest is a crime in our modern societies. I don't think Cersei is justified in killing people when she herself created the scenario in which she has to kill them to escape.

In a similar position irt to their marriages but not anywhere near Cersei irt to the vast and nearly unlimited privileges she enjoys. IOW, Cersei is even worse. 

[Alden Rothack]

5 minutes ago, frenin said:

Some british folk correct me but passing one's bastard as heir to the throne isn't a crime in Britain?

I can assure you that it is in fact still very illegal

if that happened now half the country would be demanding we reenstate the death penalty for treason, I would be one of them and volunteering to be the hangman into the bargain

[Craving Peaches]

52 minutes ago, boltons are sick said:

They just need to be separated from one another. Also, the reason why Cersei and her family were threatened with execution isn't even the incest because even she slept with someone who isn't her brother, she and her family would still face the same doom.

I disagree, I think the main reason the children and not just Cersei herself would be executed was because they would be viewed as 'abominations born of incest'. 

And the reason I judge her for her incest and fraud is because they lead to the death of thousands of people via the WotFK and because she murdered multiple innocent babies in cold blood to cover them up. Cersei looses any sympathy from me because she goes out of her way to make sure harmless, innocent babies are killed. Barra was no threat to her, yet she has her murdered in front of her mother.

[Craving Peaches]

57 minutes ago, boltons are sick said:

affair which is the thing you claim you have no problem

It's not the affair that's the issue, it's having children from the affair and passing them off as Robert's. Cersei didn't need to have children with Jaime. She could have used the same strategy she used to have Robert's children and none of Jaime's.

[frenin]

3 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

I can assure you that it is in fact still very illegal

@boltons are sick

So you see. No one cares about her cucking Robert, having bastards ad passing them as trueborn was as stupid as it was selfish. It very much guaranteed that if they were discovered, and Cersei did everything in her hand for that to happen,  the children would die, her and her brothers would die and her inmediate family would also die.

That is the best case scenario, we're reading the worst case scenario and it ends  with her and her children ded anyway.

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, boltons are sick said:

If a woman is married to man who contantly rapes her and also cheats on her, she has no way to leave the marriage and the reason why a woman cheating on a man is even considred treason in their society is due to some sexist laws that nowadays are only practiced in backwater countries like Saudi Arabia, etc., I am going to excuse her for having an affair with someone.

I didn’t see anyone here criticising Cersei for having an affair. You’re cherry-picking by presenting it as Cersei being a woman who is having an affair because her husband is a nasty & violent abuser, and people are being mean to her b/c of that. 
First, Cersei, because of her birth and position, has enormous privilege and agency. Second, the issue here is that she’s not merely having an affair, she’s been shagging her own brother for decades, and is passing off their kids as being the king’s and in the line of succession. Had she been having an affair w/ basically anyone else, none of the tragedy that followed we saw starting in AGoT would have happened.
And it’s not like she’s only done nasty and horrible things after she became Queen. Ask Melara Hetherspoon. 

ETA: made corrections

[Craving Peaches]

Presenting Cersei's relationship with Jaime as a response to Robert being a bad husband is misrepresenting what happened. Cersei was in a relationship which she knew was wrong before she even married Robert. She decided not to give Robert a chance because he called her Lyanna on their wedding night. Before Robert could ever have cheated on her she decided to continue the relationship with Jaime.

[Alden Rothack]

5 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I disagree, I think the main reason the children and not just Cersei herself would be executed was because they would be viewed as 'abominations born of incest'. 

which they are

5 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

And the reason I judge her for her incest and fraud is because they lead to the death of thousands of people via the WotFK and because she murdered multiple innocent babies in cold blood to cover them up. Cersei looses any sympathy from me because she goes out of her way to make sure harmless, innocent babies are killed. Barra was no threat to her, yet she has her murdered in front of her mother.

yup

4 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

It's not the affair that's the issue, it's having children from the affair and passing them off as Robert's. Cersei didn't need to have children with Jaime. She could have used the same strategy she used to have Robert's children and none of Jaime's.

yup again

3 minutes ago, frenin said:

@boltons are sick

So you see. No one cares about her cucking Robert, having bastards ad passing them as trueborn was as stupid as it was selfish. It very much guaranteed that if they were discovered, and Cersei did everything in her hand for that to happen,  the children would die, her and her brothers would die and her inmediate family would also die.

That is the best case scenario, we're reading the worst case scenario and it ends  with her and her children ded anyway.

Some people would care (including Tywin) because its still a terrible for her and the reputation of her family but only she would die if she didn't also pass her children off as trueborn messing the secession is serious bussiness (Elizabeth Tudor was nearly executed because of a plan to bypass her brother and poor Jane actually executed despite being trueborn for falsing claiming to be queen)

2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I didn’t see anyone here criticising Cersei for having an affair. You’re cherry-picking by presenting it as Cersei being a woman who is having an affair because her husband is a nasty & violent abuser, and people are being mean to her b/c of that. 
First, Cersei, because of her birth and position, has enormous privilege and agency. Second, the issue here is that she’s not merely having an affair, she’s been shagging her own brother for decades, and is passing off their kids as being the king’s and in the line of succession. Had she been having an affair w/ basically anyone else, none of the tragedy that followed Jaime pushing Bran would have happened. 
And it’s not like she’s only done nasty and horrible things after she became Queen. Ask Melara Hetherspoon. 
 

we can't, shes dead and rooting at the bottom of a well despite being someone cersei claims to have liked

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

Her whole thing is I’ve been wronged therefore I can do what I want because I’m always the victim. She ignores the consequences of her own choices and blames others. Sleeping with her brother, HER choice. Continuing it when she married Robert, HER choice. Having Jaime’s children, HER choice. All the while knowing that if her children’s heritage was ever discovered it’d mean hers and everyone she loves deaths. And when she covered it up, for understandable reasons, she knew the consequences of that as well. All out war. She did all of it anyway because she thought she could, and now you want to act if she is innocent in everything that happened when in reality it was because of her actions.

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

Can we just point out how stupid her plot to assassinate Robert was and the fact that it worked is nothing short of a miracle.

Whats really stupid about it is that its not even needed....pycelle is in her pocket and lancel brings him his food and wine, literaly any posion would have done and pycelle would be the man carrying out the autopsy!!

[boltons are sick]

A woman cheating on her husband IS punishable by death in the Middle Ages. If she didn't claim that her children belong to Robert, they WOULD be executed not because of some inheritance laws but because she is disrespecting the King.

What is Cersei supposed to do in your opinion, so that she wouldn't break the inheritance law but still have an affair with someone outside of her abusive marriage? Tell her husband that she is having sex with her own brother and that the children she is giving birth to shouldn't be considered heirs to the Iron Throne? In that case, she and her children would still be executed because having ANY affair outside of marriage is punishable with death which is ridiculous.

And the comparisons with modern day Britain are also really ridiculous. Cersei lives in a society where she is trapped in an abusive marriage against her will where if she doesn't pretend that her children belong to her husband, they would be executed due to the sexist laws of Westerosi society, so she is forced to pretend that her children belong to her husband for their own safety. No one in modern day Britain would face this problem because we have evolved beyond that.

Also, it's not like Cersei is destroying a royal line that's thousands of years old. Robert himself is the first of his line to sit on the throne and he started a bloody war to get it and wiped out the previous family and took the throne from them. Why is this somehow considered more moral than Cersei lying about her children's parentage to preserve their lives when if everything went according to plan and Ned didn't try to expose her secret, this wouldn't have claimed anyone's life but Robert's rebellion claimed the lives of thousands and wiped out almost the entire previous royal family.

 

[Alden Rothack]

4 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

Her whole thing is I’ve been wronged therefore I can do what I want because I’m always the victim. She ignores the consequences of her own choices and blames others. Sleeping with her brother, HER choice. Continuing it when she married Robert, HER choice. Having Jaime’s children, HER choice. All the while knowing that if her children’s heritage was ever discovered it’d mean hers and everyone she loves deaths. And when she covered it up, for understandable reasons, she knew the consequences of that as well. All out war. She did all of it anyway because she thought she could, and now you want to act if she is innocent in everything that happened when in reality it was because of her actions.

all true

2 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Whats really stupid about it is that its not even needed....pycelle is in her pocket and lancel brings him his food and wine, literaly any posion would have done and pycelle would be the man carrying out the autopsy!!

yes it would