Controversial ASoIaF Opinions

[Craving Peaches]

All dragons should be gone by the end of the series if the Others are also gone.

[Alden Rothack]

5 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I do think they need another dragon though... unless they are capable of parthenogenesis like Komodo dragons.

which would make sense

[astarkchoice]

33 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I do think they need another dragon though... unless they are capable of parthenogenesis like Komodo dragons.

Either way dany has 3 of the evil gold hoarding  beasts! 

[Craving Peaches]

33 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

which would make sense

6 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Either way dany has 3 of the evil gold hoarding  beasts! 

Only thing is I feel like there should be more of them around if they van reproduce without a mate, like the Targaryens should have had more to start with. But either way I don't think the dragons are a force for good.

[EggBlue]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

All dragons should be gone by the end of the series if the Others are also gone.

yeah . I think it'll be kinda silly if Dragons were re-born just to be extinct a few years later . that's why I strongly feel like in the end both dragons and the Others will go live in their natural habitat , away from Green Men and Targs who try to exploit them . that'll be a good ending  nature friendly

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Only thing is I feel like there should be more of them around if they van reproduce without a mate, like the Targaryens should have had more to start with. But either way I don't think the dragons are a force for good.

The species was almost wiped out with the doom though bar the 5 originals the targs brought with them (4 died after doom and one became 3 for the invasion of westeros) 

[Gilbert Green]

16 hours ago, LongRider said:

Ancient prophecies, Azor Ahai, Nissa Nissa, Lightbringer, the Prince that Was Promised will not come to be, nor will the POV's reenact other myths or stories, including The Last Hero, Brandon the Builder, and Symeon-Star Eyes. 

The current POV's are informed by myths, stories and prophecies, but have their own original stories to act out and history won't repeat itself.

Except for Cersei, she is making Maggey the Frog's prophecies come true because she's stupid.

Let me put it this way:  "Jaime is the Valonquar" is not a real theory, because it will never be confirmed or denied in the coming books.  However, "Jaime will strangle Cersei" is a real theory, and may indeed be proven true or false in the coming books.  And if that does come to pass, no-one will doubt that the valonquar prophesy was a sort of foreshadowing clue.

[Alden Rothack]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Only thing is I feel like there should be more of them around if they van reproduce without a mate, like the Targaryens should have had more to start with. But either way I don't think the dragons are a force for good.

which is impossible, dragons are animals and therefore incapable of being either good or evil

people on the hand are very much capable of using dragons for evil, its much harder to do good with a sentient WMD

[SeanF]

1 minute ago, Alden Rothack said:

which is impossible, dragons are animals and therefore incapable of being either good or evil

people on the hand are very much capable of using dragons for evil, its much harder to do good with a sentient WMD

That depends entirely on the purpose for which one is waging war.

[Alden Rothack]

1 minute ago, SeanF said:

That depends entirely on the purpose for which one is waging war.

hope, no war is good

some are just and necessary but thats not the same thing, even a just war does huge damage to the people your liberating

see St Lo, France among many other places throughout history

[The Bard of Banefort]

10 hours ago, SeanF said:

In war, there’s not a lot of difference between the typical knight, and the typical Dothraki.

The difference is the culture. I once saw someone make an interesting point that Victarion is basically what Barristan would be if he were Ironborn: someone who completely conformed to and excelled at what his culture expected of him. If he had been raised in the Reach or the Vale, he would have been a perfect shining knight.

[SeanF]

1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The difference is the culture. I once saw someone make an interesting point that Victarion is basically what Barristan would be if he were Ironborn: someone who completely conformed to and excelled at what his culture expected of him. If he had been raised in the Reach or the Vale, he would have been a perfect shining knight.

I think there are not a lot of perfect, shining,  knights (Brienne comes closest).

There are quite a lot like Ser Clayton Suggs,   Ser Amory Lorch, Ser Axel Florent, Red Ronnet, brutish men who enjoy cruelty.

Most common are men like Steelshanks Walton (not a knight, but equivalent in military rank) who slay whom their lord commands, rape when their blood is up, pillage and burn, but are unexceptional outside of warfare.

[Mourning Star]

11 hours ago, SeanF said:

In war, there’s not a lot of difference between the typical knight, and the typical Dothraki.

One notable difference highlighted by the story is that taking and selling of slaves.

Another inherent difference is that knights and lords serve peace time functions outside of war. There is a major difference between a migratory society to one that builds farms, towns, and cities.

It's one thing to make comparisons, which I do think exist, but to say they are the same seems shallow to me, to the point of meaningless or outright falsehood.

9 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

Ok heres one just spitballing to cause controversy ....ned  due to his possible ptsd was a terrible warden of the north!! Safe in his friendship with the king and family ties to riverrun+ vale he lays back and declines to play the game much.

I know this is intentionally controversial, but I think this is pretty clearly not the case, so I hope you take this response in the good natured fashion it is intended.

"Playing the game" is not a good thing. It's not a game.

Also, He rules the North in relative peace and prosperity for the entire time he is there. He fights and wins two wars, and things only go to shit once he goes south, and is then killed.

9 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

Lets look at his record 

-Has an absolute litter of kids none of whom are yet bethrothed to secure the north 

Maybe marrying kids off young isn't great?

Are you arguing that the betrothal of Sansa and Jof was good? 

It seems to me that Ned learned first hand how badly a too early engagement could go from Lyanna.

9 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

-ramsay (ans possibly rooses) crimes go un heard of 

Two issues here. Presumably you are talking about the death of Domeric? Since the Lady Hornwood incident was after Ned went south. First, there doesn't seem to be proof that he killed Domeric. Second, justice would fall first to Lord Bolton, not Ned.

9 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

-Moat catlin and the broken tower in his own castle left to slowly decay

They stood for thousands of years, and still no army has taken them from the south.

9 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

-almost zero contact with his old buddy robert or his brothers ,even a few ravens to stannis   or even talkng to job arryn of the crowns  finances etc and he could have influenced   robert to reign in the spending spree a bit. ..it def could have prevented most of GOT taling place!

I'm not sure why you think there were no ravens, but some expectation that they would be pen palls doesn't seem realistic. I don't know why Ned would be communicating with Stannis. It's not clear that Ned could slow down the spending, or why anyone would have asked or expected him too.

9 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

-hell.even ravens to his old pal howland reed..whats that you say ? Your son thinks mine will save the world..ok lets get him down from climbing  those battlements and get him learning this magic stuff asap

There is no evidence that Jojen has thought Bran would save the world. When Jojen told his father about his dream he was sent to Winterfell, Ned was already in the South.

9 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

-battled the greyjoy rebellion yet neglects to start work on any fleet or harbour defences on the west coast...even a handful.of small fast ships as scouts to warn the shore the raiders are comming would do wonders!

The North having no power at sea is a plot point in the story. But, I don't disagree that building some ships would have been smart, but in hindsight we could come up with lots of things like this for anyone in the story or history for that matter. More practically, just building new ships is no replacement or competition for a seafaring tradition and lifelong trained sailors and shipwrights.

9 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

- speaking of ironborn allows theon to train arms and learn but not what he needs to lead his people, regular interaction with sailors (say down in white harbour)  or time at sea, axe throwing and most importantly spiritual guidance...theon at books start  is shallow and lost, spends his spare  time hunting whoring drinking and braging..however distasteful.ned should have kept in touch with balon for family vists or at least  loaned him a drowned priest to keep the boy in check!!

Theon is an interesting conundrum. I think Ned kept him close as a hostage, and also tried to instill some of his morals in Theon. To some extent it seemed to have worked, although clearly not entirely, he sacked Winterfell, but also spared Ned's sons.

9 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

-neglects his good idea of resettling the gift 

This, along with building ships takes money. But again, I don't hate this idea at face value. I think the issue is ascribing blame to Ned for what appears a policy that lasted for generations.

9 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

-allows the nightswatch to wither despite constant constact with benjen. The talk of undermanned forts, forrest creeping towards the wall and even rumours of a king to a north never should have gotten as far.....ned should have been active getting his best buddy robert to send prisoners etc to the wall from all over the kingdom as well as supplies, money, arms etc.

As Stannis showed, the wilding were no threat to a real Westerosi army. The issue was that the strength of the North had already marched South. At the beginning of the Story Ned even says he may have to go north and deal with Mance, who had not yet begun gathering the Wildlings.

9 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

-punishes jorah mormont as he rightly should BUT neglects the fact hes now left the mormonts with no male.heirs ..a marriage pact should have been set up asap.

Ned appeared to have a policy of letting Women hold power in their own right. We see this both in Maege Mormont and Barbary Dustin. I would be inclined to commend him for this.

At the end of the day I'm not trying to say Ned was perfect or couldn't have done some things better, or in retrospect have taken different actions. But the idea that he was a terrible warden of the North seems ridiculous to me, both from what we learn of the history of his reign in the North and of him as a man, arguably put forwards to the reader as the archetypal "good man".

[SeanF]

5 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

One notable difference highlighted by the story is that taking and selling of slaves.

Another inherent difference is that knights and lords serve peace time functions outside of war. There is a major difference between a migratory society to one that builds farms, towns, and cities.

It's one thing to make comparisons, which I do think exist, but to say they are the same seems shallow to me, to the point of meaningless.

 

In theory, slaves are not taken in war.  In reality, the Lannister commanders or Roose Bolton would just call captive peasants, forced to labour, something else.

[Mourning Star]

3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

In theory, slaves are not taken in war.  In reality, the Lannister commanders or Roose Bolton would just call captive peasants something else.

And this is a fair point, lots of people have compared serfs/servants to slaves, but there are also differences.

Also, we don't see Tywin rounding up the entire population of King's Landing during the Sack like a Dothraki Horde does to the places they sack. Westerosi don't march captives off to be sold into slavery in mass like the Dothraki.

[SeanF]

11 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

And this is a fair point, lots of people have compared serfs/servants to slaves, but there are also differences.

Also, we don't see Tywin rounding up the entire population of King's Landing during the Sack like a Dothraki Horde does to the places they sack. Westerosi don't march captives off to be sold into slavery in mass like the Dothraki.

Oh I see the difference between a serf/servant and a chattel.

But, peasants do get rounded up and used as chattels by opposing armies.  Arya’s POV demonstrates it.  

[Mourning Star]

2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Oh I see the difference between a serf/servant and a chattel.

But, peasants do get rounded up and used as chattels by opposing armies.  Arya’s POV demonstrates it.  

Certainly true, just not the same.

[Mourning Star]

My controversial opinions:

Bloodraven is not the three eyed crow.

Mance sent the catspaw assassin.

Dany is not the child of Aerys and Rhaella.

[astarkchoice]

9 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

we see weaker dragons fight rather flee even against against overwhelming odds

i'd say dragons are more of a threat to each other than any knowledge humans might have

Only when pushed by their cruel dragonriding masters

Overall moat would flee and breed , the stronger ones stay and breed..overall its not looking good  for humankind  to remain as the alpha predator on planetos

[kissdbyfire]

4 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

My controversial opinions:

Gimme more…

4 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

Bloodraven is not the three eyed crow.

And who is? 

4 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

Mance sent the catspaw assassin.

Why? 

4 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

Dany is not the child of Aerys and Rhaella.

Who are her parents?