Two Overkills: butchering Waymar Royce and Kevan Lannister

[Nadden]

6 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:ASOIAF_Calendar_2016_Cover.jpg

This image was used for the official 2016 Calendar, and a cropped black/white version is also used in the illustrated hard cover edition of aGoT.

So it's very much an "official" illustration about the Others versus Waymar Royce. One Other is very much in the forefront confronting Waymar who's on his knees. But there are 2 "watching" vaguer Others in the background.

Ahhh yes:) This is a popular picture and, as a piece of art, I think it’s amazing. And I believe you’re probably right about it being apart of official 2016 calendar. And personally I don’t know what it means to be “official”. I assume there’s some type of contract involving copyrights and trademarks and so forth. But it obviously doesn’t speak to the accuracy of the illustration relative to the scene in the book. 
 

Quote

 

When the blades touched, the steel shattered.

 

A scream echoed through the forest night, and the longsword shivered into a hundred brittle pieces, the shards scattering like a rain of needles. Royce went to his knees, shrieking, and covered his eyes. Blood welled between his fingers.

 

The watchers moved forward together, as if some signal had been given.

 

 

 

There are no shattered swords. The swords shattered before he went to his knees and a shard went into his eye. And it must have been Waymar’s right eye that was bloody and injured because his left eye looks pretty good.

And Waymar in the illustration seems to be handling better than book Waymar, screaming and covering both eyes.

 

These seem like big details that might make this great piece of art useless for book analysis. 
 

P. S. Thanks for the message!

[Nadden]

6 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/421579215103128267/

And this is the official image of children of the forest used in the World Book.

 

I bought the World Book too, love it, and it’s my understanding that the producers of the book worked closely with Martin.

But I think where we are disagreeing is who the “twins to the first” are. The ones in that illustration can easily be considered to be standing patient, faceless and silent.

Quote

Behind him, to right, to left, all around him, the watchers stood patient, faceless, silent, the shifting patterns of their delicate armor making them all but invisible in the wood. Yet they made no move to interfere.

 

They emerged silently from the shadows, twins to the first. Three of them … four … five … Ser Waymar may have felt the cold that came with them, but he never saw them, never heard them. Will had to call out. It was his duty. And his death, if he did. He shivered, and hugged the tree, and kept the silence.

They emerged from the shadow. But I don’t think they were twins to the shadow. It’s reasonable that Will, remembering the “far-eyes” would think these “watchers” looked the same. But certainly the shifting patterns of the delicate armor making them all but invisible in the wood isn’t enough lock this in as fact; but your parallel certaintly helps.

[sweetsunray]

On 4/6/2023 at 3:16 AM, Nadden said:

And personally I don’t know what it means to be “official”. I assume there’s some type of contract involving copyrights and trademarks and so forth. But it obviously doesn’t speak to the accuracy of the illustration relative to the scene in the book. 

It's not just in the official licensed calendar, but also an illustration in the illustrated version of aGoT by Bantam books. George RR Martin is consulted by illustrators and he reviews illustrations, giving feedback if it does not match with his vision. So, even if an illustration is an adaptation by the illustrator and therefore an interpretation, George would not okay an illustration that opposes his own vision. The depiction of the Iron Throne is a famous example of this.

You argue that it's incorrect because it depicts Waymar's left eye intact and his sword isn't shattered yet. The sword not being shattered yet and the eye still being intact is actually a correct combination. It just means it depicts the confrontation prior to Waymar's sword shattering and getting a piece of it in his eye.

 

[Nadden]

16 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

It's not just in the official licensed calendar, but also an illustration in the illustrated version of aGoT by Bantam books. George RR Martin is consulted by illustrators and he reviews illustrations, giving feedback if it does not match with his vision. So, even if an illustration is an adaptation by the illustrator and therefore an interpretation, George would not okay an illustration that opposes his own vision. The depiction of the Iron Throne is a famous example of this.

You argue that it's incorrect because it depicts Waymar's left eye intact and his sword isn't shattered yet. The sword not being shattered yet and the eye still being intact is actually a correct combination. It just means it depicts the confrontation prior to Waymar's sword shattering and getting a piece of it in his eye.

Well if the sit-downs between the illustrators and Martin were anything like the show runners and our author there again I’m not sure if we should put complete faith in the illustrators interpretation.

And I don’t mean to simply argue; but, the sequence of events, from Will’s perspective, has the sword shattering then the eye injury and then Waymar taking a knee. He doesn’t drop to his knee before the injury.

Perhaps any visual interpretation of the Prologue by illustrators or show directors risks giving away too much and thus Martin allows them to play into the vague terms and misconceptions of POV character. Will, as an unreliable narrator, has lots of latitude.

The show and I’m guessing  the illustrated books both don’t show the parallels you’ve discovered. And I have no doubt that Martin intended for those scenes to be parallel.

One of the other parallels in the two scenes is the bolt from the crossbow that kills Kevan and the “pale sword” that is described like a bolt of lightning.
 

Quote

 

-There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

-The pale sword came shivering through the air.

-the Other's danced with pale blue light.

-He found what was left of the sword a few feet away, the end splintered and twisted like a tree struck by lightning.

 

The last six words in the last quote above is a simile that directly compares the “pale sword” to lightning.