US Politics: Sorry, we do make the rules.

[Fragile Bird]

38 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

A court sentencing an ethnic group to manual labour (under guidance of the goverment). For some unspecified reason that makes me feel kinda nostalgic. 

Word of warning to the Canadian readers, if those infrastructure projects include new Highways leading to the pol Canadian border, then it's time to get the hell out of Dodge. 

What????

[James Arryn]

56 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

What????

Assume this is a reference to the growing chatter that combines a few factors/hypotheses;

 

*America’s lurch even further to the authoritarian right.

*Conservative Americans hating Canada constantly being held up as the ‘after’ diet photo. (Not even sure how true this is, just it’s mentioned a lot.)

*Canada’s wealth of fresh water and natural resources, oil included. 

*Growing anxiety about Russia/China and the Arctic.

*Climate change and what that means for the southern US plains/agriculture.

*Massive military disparity and ‘the world’s longest undefeated border’.

This combined with an increasing view in the I.R. community that the invasion of the Ukraine signals the end of the post-war (definitions for which vary, some say since WWII, others CW) norms about peace and sovereignty, with multi-polar possibilities in the not too distant future. Of note is how much the Southern Hemisphere generally has NOT regarded the invasion of Ukraine and destabilization of WE as all that significant of a crisis for them. Tie it all together and there are a lot of rumblings that an American invasion of Canada in the next century are not as far-fetched as they once seemed, and on paper it would potentially resolve a lot of America’s growing concerns. That might have great appeal to say Donald Trump III in 2077 or w/e, possibly a lot sooner. NATO would not stop it, in fact it would probably just collapse. 
 

Now hazard a possibility like terrorists attack America via Canada, or at least the appearance of same. And say it happens again. In an America already beset by droughts (Canada holds 1/3 of the planets renewable freshwater, among other things) wildfires, floods and increasing economic/food disparity and political polarization. 
 

Not saying it’s bound to happen…there are lots of unseen curves on the road ahead…but historically America has not been shy about superseding the national sovereignty of other countries when it got in the way of what America wants. Look at the litany of central/South American sponsored ‘regime changes’ for political or especially material/corporate gains. We think Canada’s different because of optics, but for the record this would mark the FIFTH attempted invasion of Canada by the US, so the idea that it’s absurd is built on pretty ephemeral circumstances. 
 

And also remember, America has NEVER said no to a war it wanted. 

 

[ThinkerX]

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Absolutely frackin' NO!  You may as well advocate reinstituting slavery.  Our prison system has enough enslaved labor as it is, and it is a disgrace and an obscenity.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-will-offer-free-abortion-pills-at-four-city-run-sexual-health-clinics

New York City plans to offer free abortion pills at four sexual health clinics as early as Wednesday [that's tomorrow], a city-funded expansion that seeks to break down barriers to abortion in low-income communities, Mayor Eric Adams announced Tuesday. ....
 

As compared with their current status? Currently, if caught crossing the border without authorization, they get tossed in a cage indefinitely before being sent back across. No room for appeal, period. (In practice.) Even the overwhelming majority of Asylum claims are denied and take years to process.  The ones that do not get caught take jobs below the minimum wage or below the prevailing rate and a fair chunk of the time their employer will call Immigration on them rather than pay up anyhow. 

 

What this does is grant a measure of legal standing, pay of at least minimum wage, and a legal path to remain in the US longer - for people who chose to break the law by illegally crossing the border. 

The other option, which I doubt Biden can do and would NEVER get through the current congress is to drastically increase the number of work permits for those who do not illegally cross the border.

[Zorral]

If you think for a second it would really work that way -- particularly with the private prison industry -- you better read some books such as Slavery By Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II (2008) by Douglas A. Blackmon. In this country Imprisonment has always worked toward enslavement and denial of citizenship; it has never worked toward enfranchisement and citizenship

[ThinkerX]

I said nothing about private prisons and citizenship. 

I did say 'work release.'  They would have actual jobs and receive legitimate paychecks. They would not be imprisoned.

At best, this results in receiving actual work permits.

Now, do YOU have a workable, realistic solution to this issue? One that won't get immediately struck down in court or doesn't involve a political miracle?

Do YOU believe crossing the border without authorization should be without legal penalty?

Do YOU find the current abuses inflicted upon unauthorized people in the US to be acceptable? 

[The Anti-Targ]

If you've done something illegal, and if changing the law to be more humane is not an option, then conviction of a crime necessitates some kind of penance. A penance that does not involve imprisonment or deportation for people who are not a danger to society is mostly preferrable, though deportation can be an option unless it's very likely that person will be a rubber ball and just come bouncing back. If you want to levy a fine for improperly entering the country that's OK, give them time to find meaningful employment and then put a payment plan in place, but don't force them to work minimum wage, at least not while US minimum wage is so pathetically low. If they have the skills for a better paying job it's nuts to not allow them to work better jobs.

Of course not all border crossings are criminal acts. Refugee crossings typically are not treated as criminal acts though there is always a process to confirm the asylum claim is legit. Whether you keep such people in detention camps (effectively prison) or let them live and work int he community is the thing.

[ThinkerX]

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

If you've done something illegal, and if changing the law to be more humane is not an option, then conviction of a crime necessitates some kind of penance. A penance that does not involve imprisonment or deportation for people who are not a danger to society is mostly preferrable, though deportation can be an option unless it's very likely that person will be a rubber ball and just come bouncing back. If you want to levy a fine for improperly entering the country that's OK, give them time to find meaningful employment and then put a payment plan in place, but don't force them to work minimum wage, at least not while US minimum wage is so pathetically low. If they have the skills for a better paying job it's nuts to not allow them to work better jobs.

Of course not all border crossings are criminal acts. Refugee crossings typically are not treated as criminal acts though there is always a process to confirm the asylum claim is legit. Whether you keep such people in detention camps (effectively prison) or let them live and work int he community is the thing.

Pretty much.

Biden *might* be able to pull this off solely through the powers of his office. He (and other presidents?) have issued blanket pardons in the past, which sets a precedent of sorts.

 

[polishgenius]

Wow, he's really committed to his run for President.

[mormont]

Look, we've all had too much to drink, or smoke, or otherwise disturbed the balance of our judgement, and had ideas come into our heads that seem really revolutionary until we sober up and realise we had taken leave of our moral compass. Not usually as bad as reintroducing slavery as a 'solution' to immigration, mind you, but there we are.

The point is that Joe Biden issuing an executive order to do it isn't going to happen in a billion years, so let's end that discussion, shall we?

[ThinkerX]

39 minutes ago, mormont said:

Look, we've all had too much to drink, or smoke, or otherwise disturbed the balance of our judgement, and had ideas come into our heads that seem really revolutionary until we sober up and realise we had taken leave of our moral compass. Not usually as bad as reintroducing slavery as a 'solution' to immigration, mind you, but there we are.

The point is that Joe Biden issuing an executive order to do it isn't going to happen in a billion years, so let's end that discussion, shall we?

I was neither drunk nor stoned.

Nor did I mention slavery. That comes entirely from people overreacting.

That said, do you see ANY realistic option that Biden could take to reduce the disaster at the border that would stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting through congress or wouldn't immediately get nixed in the courts?

 

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

That said, do you see ANY realistic option that Biden could take to reduce the disaster at the border that would stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting through congress or wouldn't immediately get nixed in the courts?

Your proposal would immediately get nixed by the courts.  The president's pardoning powers do not even remotely extend to setting up a "penal work release program."  That would require legislation.

[ThinkerX]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Your proposal would immediately get nixed by the courts.  The president's pardoning powers do not even remotely extend to setting up a "penal work release program."  That would require legislation.

Biden, though, could pardon the unauthorized arrivals or otherwise commute their sentence, correct?

 

[DMC]

54 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

Biden, though, could pardon the unauthorized arrivals or otherwise commute their sentence, correct?

 

Yes.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Great way to speed up his impeachment. 

[Zorral]

15 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

I said nothing about private prisons and citizenship. 

I did say 'work release.'  They would have actual jobs and receive legitimate paychecks. They would not be imprisoned.

At best, this results in receiving actual work permits.

Now, do YOU have a workable, realistic solution to this issue? One that won't get immediately struck down in court or doesn't involve a political miracle?

Do YOU believe crossing the border without authorization should be without legal penalty?

Do YOU find the current abuses inflicted upon unauthorized people in the US to be acceptable? 

These are two separate things.  Don't conflate them -- which you will by declaring immigrants criminals and giving them over to being run by corporate 'overseers'.

We need organization and vision to deal with immigrants -- which we do not have, and the reichlicans stand in the way of every attempt to create modes and strategies to effectively deal with what is at the moment only the edge of tsunami of migration, with climate change, if nothing else.  Read some history, such as how the Romans attempted to deal with it, lying and starving them, until they got ... Attila.

[gruff one]

So, put down the shoebox and get on that shit.

[Week]

@Wade1865, new avi pic for you.

 

[Wade1865]

1 hour ago, Week said:

... for you.

Week -- as a man, George is undeniably dashing and rakish; as Kitara, stylish and inspiring. Look out, Uncle Joe -- you've got competition!

America, you're in good hands 

[DMC]

New York Democrats Block Gov. Kathy Hochul's Pick For Top Judge:

Quote

A key panel dominated by Democrats tanked New York Gov. Kathy Hochul’s nominee to lead the state’s highest court on Wednesday, handing the governor a humiliating defeat at the hands of members of her own party ― and a victory for progressive lawmakers determined to hold the line against a judicial pick they deemed too conservative.

Ten Democratic members of the committee voted “no,” while nine committee members ― three Democrats and six Republicans ― voted to advance his nomination for a floor vote. Of the latter group, two Democrats voted “yes” and the rest voted to advance his nomination “without recommendations,” indicating issues with the nominee that stopped short of a desire to block him from advancing.

As the article notes, Hochul is going to continue to fight to try to get LaSalle a floor vote.  I have no idea if that will be successful or not, but Hochul's persistence is quite odd, at least at the national level.  When a nominee meets such resistance from the executive's own party, they almost always bail on the nominee well before even a committee vote.

[Zorral]

States Rights, State Independence is here -- voter repression and flat rate tax of 30% on everything for everybody (HAW HAW HAW wrt 'everybody') does hem up proud.

Heather Cox Richardson outlines the reichlican plans in stark, succinct prose.

Quote

One of the promises House speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) made to the extremist members of the Republican conference to win his position was that he would let them bring the so-called Fair Tax Act to the House floor for a vote. On January 8, Representative Earl “Buddy” Carter (R-GA) introduced the measure into Congress.

The measure repeals all existing income taxes, payroll taxes, and estate and gift taxes, replacing them with a flat national sales tax of 30% on all purchased goods, rents, and services (which its advocates nonsensically call a 23% tax because, as Bloomberg opinion writer Matthew Yglesias explains their thinking: “if something sells for $100 plus $30 in tax, then it’s a 23% tax—because $30 is 23% of $130”). The measure abolishes the Internal Revenue Service, leaving it up to the states to administer the tax.

The bill says the measure will “promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity.” But a 30% sales tax on everything doesn’t seem to do much for fairness or economic opportunity for all, since it would, of course, hit Americans with less money to spend far harder than it would Americans with more money to spend. And the end of income, gift, and estate taxes would be a windfall for the wealthy.

Such a bill is not going to pass this Congress, and if it did, President Biden would not sign it. Two days after Carter introduced the measure, Biden said to the press: “National sales tax, that’s a great idea. It would raise taxes on the middle class by taxing thousands of everyday items from groceries to gas, while cutting taxes for the wealthiest Americans.” He promised he would never agree to any such legislation.

But the measure is illuminating. It explicitly rejects the position, and the principles, of the original Republican Party.

Members of the Republican Party invented the U.S. income tax during the Civil War, and they created the precursor to the IRS to collect it. To find money to fight the war, they raised tariffs on common products but immediately turned to the novel idea of an income tax, and a graduated one at that, to make sure that “the burdens will be more equalized on all classes of the community, more especially on those who are able to bear them,” as Senator William Pitt Fessenden (R-ME) put it.

Justin Smith Morrill (R-VT) agreed. “The weight [of] taxation must be distributed equally,” he said, “Not upon each man an equal amount, but a tax proportionate to his ability to pay.”

The Republicans then quite deliberately constructed a national system for collecting the new taxes. In the midst of the Civil War, they urged their colleagues to imagine what would happen if a disloyal state were permitted to manage the collection itself. A Democratic legislature could simply refuse, and the government might perish for lack of funds to support the troops. The government had a right to “demand” 99 percent of a man’s property for an urgent necessity, Morrill said. When the public required it, “the property of the people…belongs to the Government.”

Today’s Republicans are taking a position opposite to the one that the men who formed the Republican Party did during the Civil War. They want to get rid of the income tax and put state governments in charge of the nation’s revenue system. Wording in the measure suggests that this change is because state governments have expertise in sales taxes, but it is no accident that the plan dismantles the federal system that Civil War Republicans accurately noted gives Americans “a sense of personal responsibility in the safety and stability of the nation.”

This radical tax bill strikes a blow for states’ rights, much as the southern leaders the original Republicans stood against did in the 1860s. It is far easier for a minority to take over a state and impose its will on a majority there than it is to do the same at the national level. And Republicans are definitely working to cement their control in the states.

In The Nation yesterday, Joan Walsh pulled together some of the many stories of voter suppression that have come lately from Republican-dominated states. Former Georgia Senator Kelly Loeffler recently noted that her state’s 2021 law cutting way back on mail-in ballots helped elect Republicans: Walsh points out that mail-in ballots dropped by 81% between 2020 and 2022, and Black voter turnout dropped.

Robert Spindell, an election commissioner in Wisconsin who was one of Trump’s fake electors in 2020, wrote an email to about 1700 people saying that Republicans “can be especially proud of the City of Milwaukee (80.2% Dem Vote) casting 37,000 less votes than cast in the 2018 election with the major reduction happening in the overwhelming Black and Hispanic areas.” Senator Ron Johnson won reelection in that race over Democratic candidate Mandela Barnes, who is from Milwaukee, by about 27,000 votes.

In Florida, Missouri, and Ohio, Republican lawmakers are trying to make it harder for citizens to use ballot initiatives, as progressive policies like Medicaid expansion, the legalization of marijuana, hikes in the minimum wage, abortion rights, and redistricting by independent commissions have all turned out to be popular.

And on Monday, in New Mexico, Solomon Peña, an unsuccessful Republican candidate for the state legislature last year, was arrested for allegedly hiring men to shoot at the homes of four Democratic elected officials.

By taking control of the states, Republicans can impose their will. Centering taxation there, rather than the federal government, is one more way to try to make people conform to their worldview.

Tucked inside the proposed tax measure is broad government oversight of a state’s poorer citizens. It provides an option for “qualified” families to get a rebate, but each member of the household must be registered annually with the state. Every member of the family over the age of 21 must certify in writing that all family members have been listed, that they are all legal residents of the U.S., and that none “were incarcerated on the family determination date.” Incarceration is defined as anyone “incarcerated in a local, State, or Federal jail, prison, mental hospital, or other institution.”

This measure will not pass in this Congress, but it is striking proof that the modern Republican Party has abandoned not only its original principles, but even its more recent philosophy of “freedom” from an intrusive government

They have made their methods for ridding the USA of any possibility that anyone who isn't born into the right circumstances will ever be able to pull themselves out of oppression and poverty -- even out of illiteracy.  They've been working to realize Their objective for decades and decades.