James Arryn Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: To be fair Ramsay might not be classed as insane as he's seemingly not psychotic, just a horrible person. He likely knows what he's doing is wrong but just doesn't care. But Arya is not insane in any sense of the word. Eh, not sure. First, as you know insanity is a legal, not psychological, term. But within that framework, assessments DEFINITELY scale for age. So for example a 10 year old who kills 2 dogs might qualify as more ‘insane’ than an adult who kills 10 people. Secondly, imo she’s at least suffering PTSD, which would qualify as insane in most jurisdictions. It’s possible I just want her to have an excuse for like killing Daeron or w/e because I have definitely been saddened by her…development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 14 minutes ago, James Arryn said: Secondly, imo she’s at least suffering PTSD, which would qualify as insane in most jurisdictions. I am not sure. It's been a while since I read the books, but I don't recall Arya displaying many symptoms. I always got the impression that she had experienced a lot of grief and trauma and didn't have the time to process it properly, not that she had a full on mental disorder. But I could be wrong. Where I live there are very strict requirements for being classed as 'insane'. At the time of the crime you had to be in such a way that you could not understand what you were doing or appreciate its wrongful nature . I don't think these ever apply to Arya. But Arya can just plead non-age anyway (where I live you have to be older than twelve to be criminally responsible) so all is well at least in terms of her not being found guilty of murder. 19 minutes ago, James Arryn said: It’s possible I just want her to have an excuse for like killing Daeron or w/e because I have definitely been saddened by her…development. It is sad but I think Arya still realises what she did was wrong, since she tells herself over and over again that Dareon deserved to die because he was a deserter, seems to me like she's looking for a justification/excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 20 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: Which character is going to lose it next? And I mean properly lose it, not just 'I don't like this character so I'll say they're a psycho'. All joking aside I don't think it's Jon. Jon will lose much of his humanity and ability to reason. That happens to zombies. It’s not insanity but a reduction in humanity. Among the Starks, it is Arya who has crossed the border into the land of madness. Bran too is getting deeper into darkness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 3 hours ago, Darth Sidious said: That happens to zombies You dont say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 7 hours ago, EggBlue said: you're joking , right?! the traumatized kid is insane but the full grown ass adult who rapes , tortures and kills for sport is just getting there?! Stark haters have no limit in their trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 12, 2023 Author Share Posted January 12, 2023 6 hours ago, Darth Sidious said: Jon will lose much of his humanity and ability to reason. That happens to zombies. It’s not insanity but a reduction in humanity. Among the Starks, it is Arya who has crossed the border into the land of madness. Bran too is getting deeper into darkness. Arya is not insane. You are ignoring the medical and legal definitions of the word, which I specifically posted to show that Arya was not insane. But of course this doesn't matter to you when you wish to insult a character you don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 12 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: To be fair Ramsay might not be classed as insane as he's seemingly not psychotic, just a horrible person. He likely knows what he's doing is wrong but just doesn't care. But Arya is not insane in any sense of the word. Not psychotic but def sociopath same with roose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 28 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: Not psychotic but def sociopath same with roose Maybe it's unfair to judge Roose without seeing what he's like without his leeches, but on the page he seems quite distinct from Ramsay. Roose is entitlement devoid of any compassion, perhaps the classic sociopath, but in a position of power and a culture that caters to his worst qualities. Ramsay is more of a fiery presence, full of rage and wounded pride. Maybe he's more of a malignant narcissist; just as ruthless as Roose, but less predictable due to his constantly threatened sense of self worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 10 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said: Maybe it's unfair to judge Roose without seeing what he's like without his leeches, but on the page he seems quite distinct from Ramsay. Roose is entitlement devoid of any compassion, perhaps the classic sociopath, but in a position of power and a culture that caters to his worst qualities. Ramsay is more of a fiery presence, full of rage and wounded pride. Maybe he's more of a malignant narcissist; just as ruthless as Roose, but less predictable due to his constantly threatened sense of self worth. The scary thing about roose is he dismisses ramsays crimes with a kind of 'boys will be boys' attitude ...its as though hes done far worse at his age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 24 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: The scary thing about roose is he dismisses ramsays crimes with a kind of 'boys will be boys' attitude ...its as though hes done far worse at his age Oh no doubt. There's also the connection of flaying to skinchanging, at least in some of GRRM's other stories. In those stories, wearing the skin of a werewolf (called a skinchanger) who was flayed alive allows the wearer to transform into a wolf themselves. Not sure if this will factor explicitly into the ASOIAF narrative, but at very least it seems like a clue for hardcore GRRM fans that House Bolton's history and very house concept derives from their desire to be the Starks. For me, that fact, coupled with Roose's desire to cool down his blood via leeching speaks to an older, darker history of the Stark line as the ancient Kings of Winter, with icy blood in their veins, and old, cold gods to serve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Phylum of Alexandria said: Oh no doubt. There's also the connection of flaying to skinchanging, at least in some of GRRM's other stories. In those stories, wearing the skin of a werewolf (called a skinchanger) who was flayed alive allows the wearer to transform into a wolf themselves. Not sure if this will factor explicitly into the ASOIAF narrative, but at very least it seems like a clue for hardcore GRRM fans that House Bolton's history and very house concept derives from their desire to be the Starks. For me, that fact, coupled with Roose's desire to cool down his blood via leeching speaks to an older, darker history of the Stark line as the ancient Kings of Winter, with icy blood in their veins, and old, cold gods to serve. My headcannon is the flaying became an intel counter to the starks. When it was the kings of winter vs the red.kings and the starks (possibly through cnquest and intermarriage with the warg kings and marsh kings) had greensight and/or wargs to help them gather intel on the bolton forces it makes sense that their non magical enemies would rely on extreme torture to ensure their information was just as accurate!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Fenimore Cooper XXII Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 On 1/11/2023 at 1:38 AM, Craving Peaches said: Which character is going to lose it next? And I mean properly lose it, not just 'I don't like this character so I'll say they're a psycho'. All joking aside I don't think it's Jon. Arya Stark. She is already insane. Her mental condition will worsen in The Winds of Winter. Her list of victims will greatly increase. What the old witch saw will come true when Arya mass murders a city full of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 minute ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: Arya Stark. She is already insane. She is not. I actually posted definitions of insane to illustrate how Arya does not meet the requirements. Are you disagreeing with this post or just ignoring it? 2 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: What the old witch saw will come true when Arya mass murders a city full of people. You'd love that, wouldn't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 On 1/11/2023 at 6:38 PM, EggBlue said: you're joking , right?! the traumatized kid is insane but the full grown ass adult who rapes , tortures and kills for sport is just getting there?! Trauma drove Arya insane. She was probably predisposed because of her “wolf” blood temperament. Ramsay is more evil and he will be punished. Inflict similar trauma and he will go mad too. He is like Arya, born with a predisposition to mental and emotional instability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 On 1/11/2023 at 1:38 AM, Craving Peaches said: Which character is going to lose it next? And I mean properly lose it, not just 'I don't like this character so I'll say they're a psycho'. All joking aside I don't think it's Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 I've already said why I don't think Arya is insane. And I have evidence too. I read that thread and did not find it compelling at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damsel in Distress Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 On 1/10/2023 at 10:38 PM, Craving Peaches said: Which character is going to lose it next? And I mean properly lose it, not just 'I don't like this character so I'll say they're a psycho'. All joking aside I don't think it's Jon. I do think it will be Jon who will go insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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