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Will Daenerys go mad? If so how?


Craving Peaches
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4 hours ago, sifth said:

If this happens, I hope Ser. Barristan isn't around to see it. The poor guy just wants to serve a king or queen that's a good person and devote the rest of his life to their service. It's such an unselfish request, I'd honestly feel bad, if he lived long enough to see Dany go mad. He truly believes in her.

I don't think Daenerys would go mad. but it'll be kinda poetic if Barry contributes to her madness path. she is going to see three treasons and the only one whose loyalty she does not doubt is Barry. now, imagine Barry goes over to Aegon's side for whatever reason ... Dany would totally go mad! 

 

4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

This is an interesting view. I don't think Barristan was that good either. He stood by and watched as Rhaella was abused and raped, along with the rest of Aerys' Kingsguard. Not even a word spoken for her. Jaime seemed to care the most out of all of them. 

most of them had worked for Aerys for years, way before he became the rapist we know and hate. that probably affected their judgment. however, I think it's more than possible that the younger ones, namely Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent, had the same experience as Jaimie. meaning they were shocked by Aerys's actions, only to be shut down by the elder members of the Kingsgaurd. that could explain why they were seemingly prince's men rather than kingsmen . 

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4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

This is an interesting view. I don't think Barristan was that good either. He stood by and watched as Rhaella was abused and raped, along with the rest of Aerys' Kingsguard. Not even a word spoken for her. Jaime seemed to care the most out of all of them. Mind you, Barristan going to serve Daenerys could equally be because he's going senile in his old age or from the heat. In an arid climate and he still wears full plate armour.

Because he's secretly a coward who fears falling into the sea and drowning with his heavy armour. Unlike Vicky who is a much better man.

What exactly is Barristan suppose to do in that regard. "Please King Aerys, treat your wife nicer"? He would have been burned alive, given how nuts Aerys was, especially in his final years.

Edited by sifth
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I don't think Dany will go mad.  As gets repeated again and again to counter the endless "Mad Arya" threads, doing bad things doesn't make someone mad, and prior to Dany's last written chapter, there has been no indication of madness.  Dany's last written chapter: yes, there are signs.  All sorts of conversations with the blades of grass, etc.  But I don't think she is going mad; I think she is delirious from the bloody flux.  In that temporary state, she will make defining decisions that will impact the rest of her life (dragons plant no trees, fire and blood, etc.), but she will be "sane" again, after embracing a much more dangerous new identity.  I strongly believe Dany will be a not-hero in the last two books, but madness won't be the cause of it.

I would not like if Dany goes full-blown mad.  First, we have two POV characters who seem to be on the path toward madness (Jon Connington) or already there (Cersei), and we don't need three.  Plus, we have three books worth of incredibly written character development showing how Dany becomes her future self.  I don't think her time in Meereen serves any purpose from a story perspective except character development, and all those chapters would be pointless if a switch is flipped and suddenly she's mad.  That would be a cheap way out and render most of her story up to now pretty pointless.

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16 minutes ago, sifth said:

What exactly is Barristan suppose to do in that regard. "Please King Aerys, treat your wife nicer"? He would have been burned alive, given how nuts Aerys was, especially in his final years.

I'm not expecting him to do a suicide move but the other knights don't seem to even have voiced concerns to each other aside from Jaime. Barristan, if I remember correctly, doesn't even think about how Rhaella was treated in his POV chapter.

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16 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

That could also be due to lack of nutrition/the berries she ate.

Yep, that is another theory as well.

Still, we have many examples of Targaryens dying of illness that the Targaryens thought they were immune to (Princess Daenerys, King Daeron II, etc.).  The bloody flux might just be one more problem that plagues Meereen, but I think Dany walking amongst the sick camps believing that her "dragon blood" gives her immunity (when we know it doesn't) is relevant.  Or maybe too much time has lapsed between then and when she started getting sick; timelines are always blurry in this story.

But I agree with you that this isn't natural madness.  It's caused by sickness or poisoned berries or something other than "Targaryen madness".

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1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

I'm not expecting him to do a suicide move but the other knights don't seem to even have voiced concerns to each other aside from Jaime. Barristan, if I remember correctly, doesn't even think about how Rhaella was treated in his POV chapter.

True, but he does regret saving Aerys life and in all likelihood would have sided with Rhaegar over Aerys, had the former lived long enough to make his move. I always view Ned Stark as my moral compass in GRRM's world and when you have a guy like Ned saying that Ser. Bary is the greatest living knight and having a great deal of respect for the man. Well he's alright in my book.

Also you have to take into account that Barristan is a relatively new POV and a character who wasn't originally suppose to be one. We might get some of the stuff you mentioned in later chapters, but as of now we only have a few and they mainly exist, only because GRRM need a Meereen POV, after Dany left the city.

Edited by sifth
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5 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

Yep, that is another theory as well.

Still, we have many examples of Targaryens dying of illness that the Targaryens thought they were immune to (Princess Daenerys, King Daeron II, etc.).  The bloody flux might just be one more problem that plagues Meereen, but I think Dany walking amongst the sick camps believing that her "dragon blood" gives her immunity (when we know it doesn't) is relevant.  Or maybe too much time has lapsed between then and when she started getting sick; timelines are always blurry in this story.

But I agree with you that this isn't natural madness.  It's caused by sickness or poisoned berries or something other than "Targaryen madness".

If she had dysentery, she’d be sending days on her back.  It was the poisonous berries that caused the vomiting and diarrhoea.  She seems largely recovered by the time she encounters Drogon.

I’d attribute the hallucinations to sunstroke.

I’d also agree that being ruthless does not equate to being mad.

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8 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

I would not like if Dany goes full-blown mad.  First, we have two POV characters who seem to be on the path toward madness (Jon Connington) or already there (Cersei), and we don't need three. 

George has a thing for threes. :wacko:

As to the OP: how about having dragon dreams again the way she had in aGoT, after she sets foot on Dragonstone? Add the paranoia that comes with the job basically, a Quaithe popping up in various ill chosen moments, and talking to her dead brother... George has primed us the reader to go "oh this is caused by dragon dreams, that was Quaithe, and this is because of the berries" whenever Dany certainly must appear to be going trippy in the eyes of chance bystanders. But those bystanders must have questions at some point. In their eyes, she's seeing and talking to illusions in thin air they themselves cannot see, sensing warmth in dragon eggs when others feel no difference. I'm trying to picture Jorah's thoughts when he witnesses her having a convo with  not just Viserys but a second Jorah for example. Jorah, Missandei, and others have witnessed her having these fits or convos or strangeness. Very minor occurances, and they were followed up by miraculous events or stuff of the legends (birth of dragons, flying away on a dragon). Onlooking characters will begin to view such behaviour quite differently when it results into dead Westerosi lords, more of them happen regularly, especially when these characters are prone to have reservations against queens having ambitions for the IT. We might not even consider her "mad". I'm sure Dany won't consider herself as such. But the people around her increasingly will end up believing it.

Edited by sweetsunray
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31 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Dany is the hero of Fire. I don’t think she will go mad. She’s the hope for mankind. Jon, on the other hand, will lose his mind as it melds with the dire wolf. 

Actually, that is a very good reason to believe that she will go mad. If you think about it, life requires ice and fire, because fire is warmth and ice is water. Warmth without water leads to death by dehydration, water without warmth turns into ice and causes death by hypothermia (plus, you can't really drink ice). And warmth can also cause heat stroke, which can cause hallucinations and delusions. And yes, I am probably overthinking this.

Point is, Jon Snow is the only character in the story who is both at the same time, thus the only one who hold "life".

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On 1/12/2023 at 11:29 AM, astarkchoice said:

Like believing all lives are forfeit so she can rule a country shes never set foot in by divine right of birth? That sort of maddness.

That's normal for Westerosi. Everybody with power thinks that they are owed their position due to their birth...

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4 minutes ago, Ser Lepus said:

That's normal for Westerosi. Everybody with power thinks that they are owed their position due to their birth...

Yes, but Dany is meant to be a modern liberal democratic pacifist, in the opinion of her critics.

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11 hours ago, SeanF said:

Yes, but Dany is meant to be a modern liberal democratic pacifist, in the opinion of her critics.

Because that is how her supporters often describe her. That, and she quite often comes off as a massive hypocrite (establishes rule of Meereen via conquest, refuses to recognize Baratheon rule via conquest; kills Masters for what they did, yet refuses to recognize that Starks and Baratheons had a right to rebel over breach of feudal custom; and quite few more I can't be bothered remembering; claims to want to be a good ruler, but shuts up Barristan whenever he mentions crimes of her family).

Honestly, that hypocrisy bothers me more than most things about her, because it has direct implications for how she will rule once in Westeros. It is easy for her to look good in Slaver's Bay with its black-and-white morality, but what will she do in Westeros?

And in ADWD, Daenerys basically unlearns everything she learned, or rather, decides to learn the wrong lesson - "ruling is too hard, making compromises is tiring and never works, I need to go all fire and blood".

Edited by Aldarion
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25 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

Because that is how her supporters often describe her. That, and she quite often comes off as a massive hypocrite (establishes rule of Meereen via conquest, refuses to recognize Baratheon rule via conquest; kills Masters for what they did, yet refuses to recognize that Starks and Baratheons had a right to rebel over breach of feudal custom; and quite few more I can't be bothered remembering; claims to want to be a good ruler, but shuts up Barristan whenever he mentions crimes of her family).

Honestly, that hypocrisy bothers me more than most things about her, because it has direct implications for how she will rule once in Westeros. It is easy for her to look good in Slaver's Bay with its black-and-white morality, but what will she do in Westeros?

I don’t know anyone (other than obvious trolls) who describes her in such terms. She is, like everyone else, a warlord in a quasi-medieval world.  She is enlightened for her times, but those are brutal times.

Nor can I believe that anyone who’d had half their family massacred, and was subject to a murder attempt, would feel anything other than intense hostility towards those responsible.  I’m quite certain I’d feel much the same way if I’d been driven from my native land.

No one expects Jon or Arya to forgive those responsible for harming their family and why should they?

Edited by SeanF
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11 hours ago, SeanF said:

Yes, but Dany is meant to be a modern liberal democratic pacifist, in the opinion of her critics.

Even in her current society she could have simply walked away from her 'claim'

Been a good khalassi to drogo and shut up about westeros  or done her duty as widow  and went to vaes dothrak, settled one of the ruined cities in the red waste  with her followers and made it flourish ,gone east to really learn how to control her beasts (iv already gone into how dangerous bringing back these things to breed without knowledge to control them is onnother threads) sold the dragon eggs at quarth and start a trading empire, take up the offer to sail far east to the jade sea etc etc

Edited by astarkchoice
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