karaddin Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Heartofice said: A biologically male body complete with male genitalia is one obvious difference I can think of. It is, saying ‘oh don’t worry about this one thing worry about another thing’ something which is not the point of discussion is very much about trying to deflect the conversation. But I can see full well all you are doing is parroting Owen Jones talking points here. Lmao at the bolded, I literally haven't seen a thing he's said in over 6 months. The only time I've even seen his name is you being obsessed with him. As for your first difference you're going to need to define "male body" some more and clarify what exactly makes it more of a threat, and why that threat is qualitatively different to a cis woman who just happens to be big and strong. Male genitalia is specific, so points for that - you can just call it a penis and testicles though, that's more precise. If that's actually the issue then your concern should be restricted to people possessing that anatomy, yes some trans women do have them but some do not. I don't agree that the genitals actually make that big a difference, sexual assault with digits or objects is still horrible and traumatizing and far too common in prisons. The most important factor in being able to sexually assault someone is to be and to overpower them via physical strength/ability or via social power dynamics/coercion (or both). A penis doesn't change the outcome if the person is able to beat the would be rapist to a pulp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, karaddin said: Male genitalia is specific, so points for that - you can just call it a penis and testicles though, that's more precise. If that's actually the issue then your concern should be restricted to people possessing that anatomy, yes some trans women do have them but some do not. I don't agree that the genitals actually make that big a difference, sexual assault with digits or objects is still horrible and traumatizing and far too common in prisons. The most important factor in being able to sexually assault someone is to be and to overpower them via physical strength/ability or via social power dynamics/coercion (or both). A penis doesn't change the outcome if the person is able to beat the would be rapist to a pulp. Why do you think 98% of rapists are male and so few rapists are women? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 27 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Qft, some sections of society want prisons to be positively medieval. I’m surprised prisoners raped in prison aren’t suing the government, as they have duty of care over prisoners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Why do you think 98% of rapists are male and so few rapists are women? Wait do you seriously think the penis makes you rape? I can't tell if this is still your bit or you actually think it. You're not actually interested in my answer but the cause is complex and involves the combination of the pressures applied via societal conceptions of masculinity and the failure to live up to them, easier access to the physical strength to overpower someone, and easier access to the social power to do the equivalent (see Harvey Weinstein for an example of what I mean by this). The behavioural impact of running on a testosterone dominated endocrine system may be a part of the puzzle as well, if chemical castration is correlated with reduced recidivism from rapists post their prison sentence then that would be a point in favour of this but I definitely don't have an answer on this particular point. None of that is the penis though, and doesn't apply to someone undergoing hormone therapy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said: I’m surprised prisoners raped in prison aren’t suing the government, as they have duty of care over prisoners. You've got to weigh up the chance the accusation is taken seriously enough that you're never under the power of that guard again versus the risk of what they'll do to you if that doesn't happen. Its a very strong deterrent to reporting in the first place. For prisoners that did go through with reporting I guess it's a question of what happened from there, I definitely don't have answers and agree with you it's what should happen. Just wanted to note the reported numbers are likely to be much lower than the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share Posted January 28, 2023 Lol. Sunak was warned of Zahawi reputational risk in October, say sources Rishi Sunak was told there could be a reputational risk to the government from Nadhim Zahawi’s tax affairs when he appointed him as Conservative party chair in October, sources have told the Observer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share Posted January 28, 2023 Did he lie to the House? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share Posted January 28, 2023 So he lied then. Well done, Pippa. Looks like another juicy scoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, karaddin said: Honestly I think "tend not to care" is the best case scenario, a lot of the time it's actively approved of as people think they deserve everything that happens to them as part of the punishment. The punishment is meant to be the loss of liberty for the duration of the sentence and the loss of life progression (ie income, experiences etc) that go with it. Nothing more than that, and the state is meant to ensure that's all it is. If only these same people were made to shovel horse shit as kids for minor infractions at camp. Then they'd learn some humanity. It really is gross though how so many want people to suffer while in prison. I'll be honest, if you rape a little kid and the community finds out and prison justice happens, I won't bat an eye, but collectively we do such a bad job at helping the majority that will be out sooner than not and even when we train them and have them work jobs with real value, they're paid pennies on the dollar. It's just all wrong if reducing recidivism is the primary goal, which it should be alongside helping the individual return to normal life and welcomed back after doing their time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Heartofice said: Why do you think 98% of rapists are male and so few rapists are women? Why do you keep parroting this statistic and ignoring kar's argument? Because if you're basing this on "statistics" then I don't need to look it up to know the rate of cis men that rape other cis men in prison is far greater than the rate of trans women that rape cis women in prison. If you're so worried about sexual assault in prisons, why isn't your focus on the former? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 2 hours ago, karaddin said: The only time I've even seen his name is you being obsessed with him. I posted a tweet of his in this thread about him claiming labor is contemplating aiding or at least not opposing tories plans to remove countries from the list of countries whose grc they’d recognize. Still haven’t gotten an explanation on how what he said was obviously wrong or lying. 2 hours ago, karaddin said: You're not actually interested in my answer They may not. Notice how he’s moved the conversation of talking to specifically trans women who are imprisoned possibly being sent to women’s prisons being found guilty of rape(hence the question of “You want to house rapists with women?!!!”) to trans women in general being too much a threat to ever allow in women’s prisons regardless of the crime because of their birth sex. A trans woman whose had a documented case of gender dysphasia since they were 8, gone through puberty blockers, hormones and top surgery whose found guilty of sex work should be housed in men’s prisons like the sordid hypothetical of some cis guy “pretending to be trans immediately upon arrest for raping a woman One could try and defend him as just that concerned with woman’s safety that the thought of assigned male at birth in women’s prisons is just too much. he’s not arguing for a removal for all cis men who are in women’s prisons or at least just those who aren’t expected to use physical force to restrain prisoners. Just the trans women . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 53 minutes ago, DMC said: Why do you keep parroting this statistic and ignoring kar's argument? Because if you're basing this on "statistics" then I don't need to look it up to know the rate of cis men that rape other cis men in prison is far greater than the rate of trans women that rape cis women in prison. If you're so worried about sexual assault in prisons, why isn't your focus on the former? Also cis men who make up the prison faculty usually in most positions of authority. Also I’m getting the impression the argument is too good and well articulated to do the whole moral grandstanding where he can go “you just want to sacrifice women at the woke altar just to prove your woke, you monster!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Just now, Varysblackfyre321 said: Also cis men who make up the prison faculty usually in most positions of authority. Well, I'd refer to them as prison guards rather than faculty, but yes those too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/25/police-officers-quit-joined-workforce-past-month/ Acaq All cops are quitting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Just now, DMC said: Well, I'd refer to them as prison guards rather than faculty, but yes those too. Understand why that was your first thought but I was thinking more broadly like wardens, doctors, prison chaplans etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Just now, Varysblackfyre321 said: Understand why that was your first thought but I was thinking more broadly like wardens, doctors, prison chaplans etc etc. Fair enough. I'd still refer to those as staff rather than faculty. Just thought the wording was weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/25/police-officers-quit-joined-workforce-past-month/ Acaq All cops are quitting Not sure if same in England as in Scotland, but pension changes as of start of April last year meant cops taking early retirement are now fully eligible for full lump sum, so a lot whonwere eligible for early retirement started retiring due to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/25/police-officers-quit-joined-workforce-past-month/ Acaq All cops are quitting Morale is non existent, pay sucks and the decent ones are constantly being proffesionally embarassed by some of our colleagues behavior. We provide a terrible service and nobody is actually doing what they joined to do. I fucking loved this job when I joined, now I'm counting down the days (8 years, 3 months, 14 days). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 7 hours waiting for an ambulance after suffering a bleed in the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, Raja said: 7 hours waiting for an ambulance after suffering a bleed in the brain. Heads, spikes, walls. For every minister, voter, local councellor etc etc. These people have to answer for what they have done. This country is fucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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