Popular Post Damsel in Distress Posted January 14 Popular Post Share Posted January 14 I posted a comment on this in 2017. If R + L = J is true, then Jon Snow is the one who will go insane. He will have incidences of insanity from the Stark as well as the Targaryen side. His kin, Arya Stark, is already insane. I edited, updated, and re-posted below: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Rumors of Targaryen Madness is an Exaggeration. And a slander against the ruling House Targaryen. The prevalence of the madness that runs in the family is exaggerated. A careful study of the Targaryen lineage shows that this madness is not as prevalent as their enemies would have us believe. Targaryen + Targaryen = Maegor the Cruel Arryn + Targaryen = Rhaenyra Hightower + Targaryen = Aegon II Rogare + Targaryen = Aegon IV Velaryon + Targaryen = Baelor the Blessed Dayne + Targaryen = Aerion Brightflame Kiera + Targaryen = Vaela Targaryen + Targaryen = Aerys II In red - female parent. Non-Targaryen female parent. Italics – unclear whether these people were mad or simply just cruel. Vaela is likely someone who just had a below average mental capacity. What interests me most is that the majority of the so-called “mad” members of the family were not the direct result of T + T but rather the result of what appears to be normal pairings. A second item of note is that the madness happens more often when the mother comes from outside the family. This means the carriers of the madness are the male Targaryens. Thirdly, because we are dealing with a fantasy world in which real genetics may not completely hold true, we can assume that anyone whose father is a Targaryen will have an equal chance of going mad as any other member of the family with a Targaryen father. Also note that we have not had a female Targaryen of whom we can clearly point out as mad. None. Rhaenyra was a b* but being a difficult person does not make one mad. Maegor was cruel but that doesn’t mean he was mad. If cruelty alone make one mad then Tywin and Stannis could be labeled insane. Implications are as follows: 1. The Targaryens are the most prominent family in the series of A Song of Ice and Fire. I do not believe George R R Martin will end this family line. I think the family just needed a fresh start and based on my theory that the males carry the potentially damaging gene it makes sense to eliminate the male line and begin anew with a perfect Targaryen female. Who is, of course, the Mother of Dragons herself, Daenerys Targaryen. 2. The Targaryen dragons also needed a refresh. The heroine delivered once more and hatched three eggs. 3. Daenerys Targaryen is just fine. She will not go mad. Her future children are not going to go mad. 4. Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon. Should this theory of his parentage prove to be true, that Rhaegar is the father and Lyanna Stark the mother, it is very likely that it will be Jon who will go insane. My verdict? Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. Victor Newman, Here's Looking At You, Kid, Kierria and 21 others 21 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 17 minutes ago, Damsel in Distress said: His kin, Arya Stark, is already insane. No she isn't. Prince of the North, Lilac & Gooseberries, Ser Arthurs Dawn and 2 others 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: No she isn't. Yes she is... Wait no. I read it as "his kin, Dany Targaryen is already insane" my bad. Ser Arthurs Dawn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Green Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Jon Snow will not go insane. His glamored undead double will. Cregan Karstark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkTullies Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 2 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said: A second item of note is that the madness happens more often when the mother comes from outside the family. This means the carriers of the madness are the male Targaryens. First you left Viserys, Danys's brother, off the list. Targaryen mother, Targaryen father. He might not be mad but he was certainly a terrible person and getting worse the older he got, similar to his father. The royal succession is through the males. If a female Targaryen marries a non-Targaryen, their children are not considered Targaryen heirs and the story generally no longer keeps track of them. So the "data" is not fairly represented. If male Targaryens are the "madness carriers", then it makes no difference if the mother is a Targaryen or non-Targaryen. Unless your argument is that Mad + Sane = Mad, but Mad + Mad = Sane? (And no, I don't think all Targaryens are mad, but I am just trying to understand the argument.) 2 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said: The Targaryens are the most prominent family in the series of A Song of Ice and Fire. You can make that argument about the accessory books. Fire & Blood: obviously about the Targaryens. The Starks are unquestionably the main family in ASOIAF, no matter how much one likes or dislikes them. 2 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said: Daenerys Targaryen is just fine. She will not go mad. Her future children are not going to go mad. I agree with you that she will not go mad. I doubt that Daenerys or House Targaryen will survive the end of the story, or that Dany will have children. Mirri could have been trying to frighten her, but I think the curse on Dany being unable to bear more children is real. 2 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said: Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon. Should this theory of his parentage prove to be true, that Rhaegar is the father and Lyanna Stark the mother, it is very likely that it will be Jon who will go insane. Why do either Jon or Dany need to go insane? Jon has shown zero signs of mental instability whatsoever: if Jon does go insane, it will be because he was murdered, lived as a wolf for a time, and then got brought back to life under undoubtedly dramatic circumstances, not because Jon's father was a male Targaryen. Edited January 14 by StarkTullies Nathan Stark, Craving Peaches, Aldarion and 4 others 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 If anyone is wondering which commenter is likely to go insane, it's me from all of these topic posts about who's going to go insane. Raven Princling, Ser Arthurs Dawn, Nathan Stark and 2 others 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 34 minutes ago, StarkTullies said: but I am just trying to understand the argument. IMO the root of all these silly, laughable & wholly unsupported ‘theories’ - and I use theories as loosely as possible - is that that’s the only possible way for certain outcomes to happen. In other words, the only way the evul Starks are going to commit the atrocities the TARGAs claim they will is if they go mad. Hence Arya will go/is insane, Jon will go/is insane, Rickon will go/is insane, and so on. That’s why we get the ‘x Stark will go insane!’ threads ad nauseam. Edited January 14 by kissdbyfire Nathan Stark, LongRider, Craving Peaches and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Targaryen females do not go mad. The very few who did were men. So Jon is the one who is most at risk if he was fathered by Rhaegar. Darth Sidious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkTullies Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 17 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said: Targaryen females do not go mad. The very few who did were men. Haelena went mad. Understandably so and probably not due to genetics, and her madness didn't result in cruelty or tyranny, but she definitely went mad. Northern Sword and Lyanna<3Rhaegar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gizzard of Oz Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 @Damsel in Distress Excellent research and analysis. I do not recall reading of a Targaryen female who lost her mind. The males are the ones who go nuts. Only two can be positively confirmed though, Aerys and Baelor. Aerion was just on a very bad trip. Aerion's the kind to take psychoactive drugs. **(I would believe it of the Rogue Prince/Daemon T to take drugs to get a high)** See my musings on Jon's parents. I think R + L = J is the best of the choices because it links two old enemies to one another. Aegon is a Blackfyre and that also links another former enemy to House Targaryen and opens the doors to reconciliation. Nathan Stark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierria Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 13 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said: I posted a comment on this in 2017. If R + L = J is true, then Jon Snow is the one who will go insane. He will have incidences of insanity from the Stark as well as the Targaryen side. His kin, Arya Stark, is already insane. I edited, updated, and re-posted below: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Rumors of Targaryen Madness is an Exaggeration. And a slander against the ruling House Targaryen. The prevalence of the madness that runs in the family is exaggerated. A careful study of the Targaryen lineage shows that this madness is not as prevalent as their enemies would have us believe. Targaryen + Targaryen = Maegor the Cruel Arryn + Targaryen = Rhaenyra Hightower + Targaryen = Aegon II Rogare + Targaryen = Aegon IV Velaryon + Targaryen = Baelor the Blessed Dayne + Targaryen = Aerion Brightflame Kiera + Targaryen = Vaela Targaryen + Targaryen = Aerys II In red - female parent. Non-Targaryen female parent. Italics – unclear whether these people were mad or simply just cruel. Vaela is likely someone who just had a below average mental capacity. What interests me most is that the majority of the so-called “mad” members of the family were not the direct result of T + T but rather the result of what appears to be normal pairings. A second item of note is that the madness happens more often when the mother comes from outside the family. This means the carriers of the madness are the male Targaryens. Thirdly, because we are dealing with a fantasy world in which real genetics may not completely hold true, we can assume that anyone whose father is a Targaryen will have an equal chance of going mad as any other member of the family with a Targaryen father. Also note that we have not had a female Targaryen of whom we can clearly point out as mad. None. Rhaenyra was a b* but being a difficult person does not make one mad. Maegor was cruel but that doesn’t mean he was mad. If cruelty alone make one mad then Tywin and Stannis could be labeled insane. Implications are as follows: 1. The Targaryens are the most prominent family in the series of A Song of Ice and Fire. I do not believe George R R Martin will end this family line. I think the family just needed a fresh start and based on my theory that the males carry the potentially damaging gene it makes sense to eliminate the male line and begin anew with a perfect Targaryen female. Who is, of course, the Mother of Dragons herself, Daenerys Targaryen. 2. The Targaryen dragons also needed a refresh. The heroine delivered once more and hatched three eggs. 3. Daenerys Targaryen is just fine. She will not go mad. Her future children are not going to go mad. 4. Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon. Should this theory of his parentage prove to be true, that Rhaegar is the father and Lyanna Stark the mother, it is very likely that it will be Jon who will go insane. My verdict? Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. Agreed Nathan Stark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ring3r Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 The logic here is stretchier than a 58 year old prostitute. Craving Peaches, Nathan Stark, kissdbyfire and 2 others 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 38 minutes ago, Ring3r said: The logic here is stretchier than a 58 year old prostitute. A charming note to add to the thread. Jon might go a llttle nuts if he wakes up having warged Ghost while his body is dealing with stab wounds. Some posters think this was foreshadowed in the remembered game in the crypt when he pretended to be a a ghost to scare his siblings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 This is quite funny. I made a 'Jon is Insane' thread, but this one is actually serious... Ser Arthurs Dawn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 20 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said: I posted a comment on this in 2017. If R + L = J is true, then Jon Snow is the one who will go insane. He will have incidences of insanity from the Stark as well as the Targaryen side. His kin, Arya Stark, is already insane. I edited, updated, and re-posted below: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Rumors of Targaryen Madness is an Exaggeration. And a slander against the ruling House Targaryen. The prevalence of the madness that runs in the family is exaggerated. A careful study of the Targaryen lineage shows that this madness is not as prevalent as their enemies would have us believe. Targaryen + Targaryen = Maegor the Cruel Arryn + Targaryen = Rhaenyra Hightower + Targaryen = Aegon II Rogare + Targaryen = Aegon IV Velaryon + Targaryen = Baelor the Blessed Dayne + Targaryen = Aerion Brightflame Kiera + Targaryen = Vaela Targaryen + Targaryen = Aerys II In red - female parent. Non-Targaryen female parent. Italics – unclear whether these people were mad or simply just cruel. Vaela is likely someone who just had a below average mental capacity. What interests me most is that the majority of the so-called “mad” members of the family were not the direct result of T + T but rather the result of what appears to be normal pairings. A second item of note is that the madness happens more often when the mother comes from outside the family. This means the carriers of the madness are the male Targaryens. Thirdly, because we are dealing with a fantasy world in which real genetics may not completely hold true, we can assume that anyone whose father is a Targaryen will have an equal chance of going mad as any other member of the family with a Targaryen father. Also note that we have not had a female Targaryen of whom we can clearly point out as mad. None. Rhaenyra was a b* but being a difficult person does not make one mad. Maegor was cruel but that doesn’t mean he was mad. If cruelty alone make one mad then Tywin and Stannis could be labeled insane. Implications are as follows: 1. The Targaryens are the most prominent family in the series of A Song of Ice and Fire. I do not believe George R R Martin will end this family line. I think the family just needed a fresh start and based on my theory that the males carry the potentially damaging gene it makes sense to eliminate the male line and begin anew with a perfect Targaryen female. Who is, of course, the Mother of Dragons herself, Daenerys Targaryen. 2. The Targaryen dragons also needed a refresh. The heroine delivered once more and hatched three eggs. 3. Daenerys Targaryen is just fine. She will not go mad. Her future children are not going to go mad. 4. Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon. Should this theory of his parentage prove to be true, that Rhaegar is the father and Lyanna Stark the mother, it is very likely that it will be Jon who will go insane. My verdict? Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. I agree with the verdict. If someone is going insane in the future, it will be the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. The son of Rhaegar and Elia is also in danger of losing his mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/14/2023 at 9:24 AM, Damsel in Distress said: My verdict? Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/14/2023 at 9:24 AM, Damsel in Distress said: I posted a comment on this in 2017. If R + L = J is true, then Jon Snow is the one who will go insane. He will have incidences of insanity from the Stark as well as the Targaryen side. His kin, Arya Stark, is already insane. I edited, updated, and re-posted below: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Rumors of Targaryen Madness is an Exaggeration. And a slander against the ruling House Targaryen. The prevalence of the madness that runs in the family is exaggerated. A careful study of the Targaryen lineage shows that this madness is not as prevalent as their enemies would have us believe. Targaryen + Targaryen = Maegor the Cruel Arryn + Targaryen = Rhaenyra Hightower + Targaryen = Aegon II Rogare + Targaryen = Aegon IV Velaryon + Targaryen = Baelor the Blessed Dayne + Targaryen = Aerion Brightflame Kiera + Targaryen = Vaela Targaryen + Targaryen = Aerys II In red - female parent. Non-Targaryen female parent. Italics – unclear whether these people were mad or simply just cruel. Vaela is likely someone who just had a below average mental capacity. What interests me most is that the majority of the so-called “mad” members of the family were not the direct result of T + T but rather the result of what appears to be normal pairings. A second item of note is that the madness happens more often when the mother comes from outside the family. This means the carriers of the madness are the male Targaryens. Thirdly, because we are dealing with a fantasy world in which real genetics may not completely hold true, we can assume that anyone whose father is a Targaryen will have an equal chance of going mad as any other member of the family with a Targaryen father. Also note that we have not had a female Targaryen of whom we can clearly point out as mad. None. Rhaenyra was a b* but being a difficult person does not make one mad. Maegor was cruel but that doesn’t mean he was mad. If cruelty alone make one mad then Tywin and Stannis could be labeled insane. Implications are as follows: 1. The Targaryens are the most prominent family in the series of A Song of Ice and Fire. I do not believe George R R Martin will end this family line. I think the family just needed a fresh start and based on my theory that the males carry the potentially damaging gene it makes sense to eliminate the male line and begin anew with a perfect Targaryen female. Who is, of course, the Mother of Dragons herself, Daenerys Targaryen. 2. The Targaryen dragons also needed a refresh. The heroine delivered once more and hatched three eggs. 3. Daenerys Targaryen is just fine. She will not go mad. Her future children are not going to go mad. 4. Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon. Should this theory of his parentage prove to be true, that Rhaegar is the father and Lyanna Stark the mother, it is very likely that it will be Jon who will go insane. My verdict? Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. I am not on the R + L = J train but if it is true, yeah, Jon is the one who will go crazy. I do not expect Dany to go crazy. She has very good control of her emotions as well as very good at being self-aware. Darth Sidious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 6 minutes ago, Rondo said: She has very good control of her emotions Quote Mercy, thought Dany. They will have the dragon's mercy. "Skahaz, I have changed my mind. Question the man sharply." "I could. Or I could question the daughters sharply whilst the father looks on. That will wring some names from him." "Do as you think best, but bring me names." Her fury was a fire in her belly. Hmm...has such good emotional control that she almost immediately gives into her anger to the extent of having people tortured. Aldarion, Northern Sword and Ser Arthurs Dawn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Mae Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 He already appears to lose his sanity to the men who were there at the meeting. A black brother revealing what he did would look like a lunatic to the audience. Lyanna<3Rhaegar, Nathan Stark, Moiraine Sedai and 2 others 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 5 hours ago, Sydney Mae said: He already appears to lose his sanity to the men who were there at the meeting. A black brother revealing what he did would look like a lunatic to the audience. He may as well have announced that he is a secret Targaryen then and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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