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Jon Snow is likely to go insane


Damsel in Distress
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On 1/27/2023 at 5:05 PM, kissdbyfire said:

I didn’t. I’ve heard good things from friends who also hated the abomination, so that’s encouraging. But the first series of the abomination was good, too. So I’m taking a ‘once bitten’ approach to this. Maybe I’ll watch it a few years from now when the show is over or close to. That is, if it remains good throughout and doesn’t deteriorate into a steaming pile. One show I won’t ever come anywhere near though, not w/ a 10ft pole, is “The Wandering Adventures of Jon Snow & FakeTormund Beyond the Wall”. Same for anything w/ D&E; at least until we have all of those novellas and it’s verifiably good! :D

I enjoyed it but good call. You never know where they will go. Agreed about Jon, Tormund & all the rest! 

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On 1/28/2023 at 12:25 PM, StarkTullies said:

Well definitely Jojen Reed.  The Ghost of High Heart... though she might not count if she is a "child of the forest" (I am skeptical though; she looks like an ancient dwarf woman, and the other "children" that we know of don't look old even though they are ancient).  Jaime had that strange dream right after Harrenhal that may or may not be prophetic in some type of way.  Bran had an entire chapter of his coma dream, though the book didn't tell us what he saw in the far north (though that perhaps was "current events" rather than prophecy).

All of these dreams are metaphorical... but so were the Targaryen dreams.  Daeron (the Drunk) dreamed of a literal dragon dying in Duncan the Tall's arms, when it was actually Prince Baelor who died.

Right, Kbf has set me straight since I posted that. My contention was with the dreams not the prophetic ability but Jojen literally calls his green dreams so I was just being forgetful :)

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On 1/27/2023 at 5:05 PM, kissdbyfire said:

Same here. I’m lucky coz my dear spouse’s brain is in even worse condition, so whatever happens I just tell him, ‘that’s what happened/we said/whatever, you just can’t remember’ and I get away w/ it even though I’ve no idea what I’m talking about for the most part.

Let's try this again! 

 

Ahh the good ole days. Used to be the same 'round my household. My memory was actually pretty good then lol

My husband of 21 years passed away last January. We all miss him very much. 

Stress & life & age & here I am, crossing my legs too when I laugh too hard so I don't pee my pants but thankful I'm laughing all the same :)

On 1/27/2023 at 5:05 PM, kissdbyfire said:

I wasn’t sure but I remembered something to do w/ dreams w/ Mel, so I checked. 
She does dream, she avoids dreams b/c she thinks they’re the ‘whisperings of the Great Other (maybe BR? Since he does try to communicate w/ her but she doesn’t understand any of it, as usual), but it's not said that her dreams are prophetic. 
 

ADwD, Melisandre

"Almost dawn, my lady."

Dawn. Another day is given us, R'hllor be praised. The terrors of the night recede. Melisandre had spent the night in her chair by the fire, as she often did. With Stannis gone, her bed saw little use. She had no time for sleep, with the weight of the world upon her shoulders. And she feared to dream. Sleep is a little death, dreams the whisperings of the Other, who would drag us all into his eternal night. She would sooner sit bathed in the ruddy glow of her red lord's blessed flames, her cheeks flushed by the wash of heat as if by a lover's kisses. Some nights she drowsed, but never for more than an hour. One day, Melisandre prayed, she would not sleep at all. One day she would be free of dreams. Melony, she thought. Lot Seven.

That “Melony Lot 7 in the end there seems to be a dream that has plagued her? And understandably if she was sold as a slave.

Ohh I forgot all about her saying that about avoiding dreams. The Great Other, Blood raven, soon to be Bran? This series has so much to analyze & re-analyze it's almost maddening. 

With Stannis gone her bed saw little use? Were they sleeping together on the regular then? Maybe we already knew that? I thought, for some reason, that the he just did the one time for the one time to make the shadow baby? Goodness, I suppose I need to reread the series. 

 

It is me or is Mel pretty convincing here? LOL! Probably because it's cold here right now & I hate the cold, so bathing in anything warm sounds appealing to me. 

On 1/27/2023 at 5:05 PM, kissdbyfire said:

I didn’t. I’ve heard good things from friends who also hated the abomination, so that’s encouraging. But the first series of the abomination was good, too. So I’m taking a ‘once bitten’ approach to this. Maybe I’ll watch it a few years from now when the show is over or close to. That is, if it remains good throughout and doesn’t deteriorate into a steaming pile. One show I won’t ever come anywhere near though, not w/ a 10ft pole, is “The Wandering Adventures of Jon Snow & FakeTormund Beyond the Wall”. Same for anything w/ D&E; at least until we have all of those novellas and it’s verifiably good! :D

I enjoyed it but good call. You never know where they are going to take it. One thing that helps me is that I'm not as familiar with the going-ons of the Targ's pre-Baratheon dynasty so I can't nitpick it too much. 

"The Wandering Adventures of Jon Sno & FakeTormund Beyond the Wall" :lol: Agreed, I'll not be watching that or anything D&D ever put their name on again LOL 

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37 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Let's try this again! 
 

It’s terrible when something happens and a long post just disappears, isn’t it? Frustrating. 

37 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Ahh the good ole days. Used to be the same 'round my household. My memory was actually pretty good then lol

My husband of 21 years passed away last January. We all miss him very much. 

I am so sorry for your loss… It’s so hard to adjust when something like this happens. 
I’m also glad to hear (from the rest of your post) that you’re okay. :grouphug:

37 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Stress & life & age & here I am, crossing my legs too when I laugh too hard so I don't pee my pants but thankful I'm laughing all the same :)

Same here! :rofl:

But the main thing is that we’re still laughing! 

37 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Ohh I forgot all about her saying that about avoiding dreams. The Great Other, Blood raven, soon to be Bran?

I don’t even think there is a Great Other, I think Mel’s belief in such an entity is a combo of whatever beliefs she had before seeking out Stannis (whatever those may be) and either Bran and Bloodraven trying to reach out to her or just Mel having visions w/ them and sucking at interpreting what she’s seeing, as usual. I mean, in her chapter in Dance she this:

“A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment … but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.

And she never for a second thinks, ‘hmmm could this be anything Stark-related?’.

37 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

This series has so much to analyze & re-analyze it's almost maddening. 

LOL so true.

37 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

With Stannis gone her bed saw little use? Were they sleeping together on the regular then? Maybe we already knew that? I thought, for some reason, that the he just did the one time for the one time to make the shadow baby? Goodness, I suppose I need to reread the series. 

I need to reread everything as well. I think we suspected they were at it but iirc this is where we got confirmation. Not at all sure though, it could have been in ASoS. 

37 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

It is me or is Mel pretty convincing here? LOL! Probably because it's cold here right now & I hate the cold, so bathing in anything warm sounds appealing to me. 

Well, I’d stay well away from warmth coming from Mel as that could be a huge bonfire w/ you as kindling! :uhoh:

Seriously, she scares me. :D

 

37 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I enjoyed it but good call. You never know where they are going to take it. One thing that helps me is that I'm not as familiar with the going-ons of the Targ's pre-Baratheon dynasty so I can't nitpick it too much. 
 

Yeah, same here. I read F&B when it first came out and I remember… absolutely nothing. But as you say, it definitely helps w/ being less nitpicky. 

37 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

"The Wandering Adventures of Jon Sno & FakeTormund Beyond the Wall" :lol: Agreed, I'll not be watching that or anything D&D ever put their name on again LOL 

This idea is just… :bang:

Edited by kissdbyfire
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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

It’s terrible when something happens and a long post just disappears, isn’t it? Frustrating. 

I am so sorry for your loss… It’s so hard to adjust when something like this happens. 
I’m also glad to hear (from the rest of your post) that you’re okay. /cdn-cgi/mirage/d061fbc8a99b74d9127f1b0a19a8d29641ec2a7e3541937299ee1540bc7d0bf1/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_grouphug.gif

Same here! /cdn-cgi/mirage/d061fbc8a99b74d9127f1b0a19a8d29641ec2a7e3541937299ee1540bc7d0bf1/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_rofl2.gif

But the main thing is that we’re still laughing! 

I don’t even think there is a Great Other, I think Mel’s belief in such an entity is a combo of whatever beliefs she had before seeking out Stannis (whatever those may be) and either Bran and Bloodraven trying to reach out to her or just Mel having visions w/ them and sucking at interpreting what she’s seeing, as usual. I mean, in her chapter in Dance she this:

“A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment … but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.

And she never for a second thinks, ‘hmmm could this be anything Stark-related?’.

LOL so true.

I need to reread everything as well. I think we suspected they were at it but iirc this is where we got confirmation. Not at all sure though, it could have been in ASoS. 

Well, I’d stay well away from warmth coming from Mel as that could be a huge bonfire w/ you as kindling! /cdn-cgi/mirage/d061fbc8a99b74d9127f1b0a19a8d29641ec2a7e3541937299ee1540bc7d0bf1/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_uhoh.gif

Seriously, she scares me. :D

 

Yeah, same here. I read F&B when it first came out and I remember… absolutely nothing. But as you say, it definitely helps w/ being less nitpicky. 

This idea is just… /cdn-cgi/mirage/d061fbc8a99b74d9127f1b0a19a8d29641ec2a7e3541937299ee1540bc7d0bf1/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_bang.gif

Not just Jon and Tormund, but a harem of hot wildling chicks, as well.

Honestly, I don’t see why any woman would wish to be Jon’s third date, after what happened to the first two.

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

t’s terrible when something happens and a long post just disappears, isn’t it? Frustrating. 

haha yes! Thankfully it wasn't too long of a post lol 

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

I am so sorry for your loss… It’s so hard to adjust when something like this happens. 
I’m also glad to hear (from the rest of your post) that you’re okay. :grouphug:

Thank you, it is very hard but what can ya do? I am doing ok :) much better than I thought I would, it was kidney cancer & he was only 45 years old so very tragic but one thing cancer gives you is the time to say anything you need to. I took advantage of that & while I miss him terribly, I have no regrets. 

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Same here! :rofl:

But the main thing is that we’re still laughing! 

yes! 

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

don’t even think there is a Great Other, I think Mel’s belief in such an entity is a combo of whatever beliefs she had before seeking out Stannis (whatever those may be) and either Bran and Bloodraven trying to reach out to her or just Mel having visions w/ them and sucking at interpreting what she’s seeing, as usual. I mean, in her chapter in Dance she this:

“A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment … but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.

And she never for a second thinks, ‘hmmm could this be anything Stark-related?’.

Yeah, Mel doesn't think through things very well. I don't think there is a "Great Other" either. At least I hope not. But either way you can bet she is misinterpretting what she sees. Looking for AA & all she sees is Snow.... :bang:

 

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

I need to reread everything as well. I think we suspected they were at it but iirc this is where we got confirmation. Not at all sure though, it could have been in ASoS. 

Yeah, this is where I was at. I thought there was some hinting to it but no confirmation until that. That's my story anyway & I'm sticking to it. 

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Well, I’d stay well away from warmth coming from Mel as that could be a huge bonfire w/ you as kindling! :uhoh:

Seriously, she scares me. :D

Haha! Agreed! I won't be partaking in any of Mel's fires, regardless how cold I get. :lol:

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah, same here. I read F&B when it first came out and I remember… absolutely nothing. But as you say, it definitely helps w/ being less nitpicky. 

yep. 

 

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On 1/14/2023 at 9:24 AM, Damsel in Distress said:

I posted a comment on this in 2017. 

If R + L = J is true, then Jon Snow is the one who will go insane.  He will have incidences of insanity from the Stark as well as the Targaryen side.  His kin, Arya Stark, is already insane. 

 

I edited, updated, and re-posted below:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Rumors of Targaryen Madness is an Exaggeration.  And a slander against the ruling House Targaryen

 

The prevalence of the madness that runs in the family is exaggerated.  A careful study of the Targaryen lineage shows that this madness is not as prevalent as their enemies would have us believe.

 

    Targaryen + Targaryen = Maegor the Cruel
    Arryn + Targaryen = Rhaenyra
    Hightower + Targaryen = Aegon II
    Rogare + Targaryen = Aegon IV
    Velaryon + Targaryen = Baelor the Blessed
    Dayne + Targaryen = Aerion Brightflame
    Kiera + Targaryen = Vaela
    Targaryen + Targaryen = Aerys II

 

In red - female parent. Non-Targaryen female parent. 

Italics – unclear whether these people were mad or simply just cruel. Vaela is likely someone who just had a below average mental capacity. 

What interests me most is that the majority of the so-called “mad” members of the family were not the direct result of T + T but rather the result of what appears to be normal pairings.  A second item of note is that the madness happens more often when the mother comes from outside the family.  This means the carriers of the madness are the male Targaryens.  Thirdly, because we are dealing with a fantasy world in which real genetics may not completely hold true, we can assume that anyone whose father is a Targaryen will have an equal chance of going mad as any other member of the family with a Targaryen father.  Also note that we have not had a female Targaryen of whom we can clearly point out as mad.  None.  Rhaenyra was a b* but being a difficult person does not make one mad.  Maegor was cruel but that doesn’t mean he was mad.  If cruelty alone make one mad then Tywin and Stannis could be labeled insane. 

 

Implications are as follows:

 

    1.  The Targaryens are the most prominent family in the series of A Song of Ice and Fire.  I do not believe George R R Martin will end this family line.  I think the family just needed a fresh start and based on my theory that the males carry the potentially damaging gene it makes sense to eliminate the male line and begin anew with a perfect Targaryen female.  Who is, of course, the Mother of Dragons herself, Daenerys Targaryen.
    2.  The Targaryen dragons also needed a refresh.  The heroine delivered once more and hatched three eggs.
    3.  Daenerys Targaryen is just fine.  She will not go mad.  Her future children are not going to go mad. 
    4.  Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon.  Should this theory of his parentage prove to be true, that Rhaegar is the father and Lyanna Stark the mother, it is very likely that it will be Jon who will go insane.

 My verdict?  Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. 

It sure looked that way, My Lady.  We were still recovering from the trauma of Slynt's execution when our late Commander unloaded more shocking revelations during the meeting.  It was a crime to let Mance Rayder go without punishment.  The man was a deserter and a traitor to our Order.  He led an attack on the wall and killed many of our own.  The Commander sends him on a treasonous errand to hide his sister from the Boltons.  Then builds himself a Wildling war party for the purpose of attacking the Boltons.  No sane brother of the watch would even contemplate such treason.  It debased our Order. 

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4 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

It’s terrible when something happens and a long post just disappears, isn’t it? Frustrating. 

I am so sorry for your loss… It’s so hard to adjust when something like this happens. 
I’m also glad to hear (from the rest of your post) that you’re okay. /cdn-cgi/mirage/d061fbc8a99b74d9127f1b0a19a8d29641ec2a7e3541937299ee1540bc7d0bf1/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_grouphug.gif

Same here! /cdn-cgi/mirage/d061fbc8a99b74d9127f1b0a19a8d29641ec2a7e3541937299ee1540bc7d0bf1/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_rofl2.gif

But the main thing is that we’re still laughing! 

I don’t even think there is a Great Other, I think Mel’s belief in such an entity is a combo of whatever beliefs she had before seeking out Stannis (whatever those may be) and either Bran and Bloodraven trying to reach out to her or just Mel having visions w/ them and sucking at interpreting what she’s seeing, as usual. I mean, in her chapter in Dance she this:

“A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment … but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.

And she never for a second thinks, ‘hmmm could this be anything Stark-related?’.

LOL so true.

I need to reread everything as well. I think we suspected they were at it but iirc this is where we got confirmation. Not at all sure though, it could have been in ASoS. 

Well, I’d stay well away from warmth coming from Mel as that could be a huge bonfire w/ you as kindling! /cdn-cgi/mirage/d061fbc8a99b74d9127f1b0a19a8d29641ec2a7e3541937299ee1540bc7d0bf1/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_uhoh.gif

Seriously, she scares me. :D

 

Yeah, same here. I read F&B when it first came out and I remember… absolutely nothing. But as you say, it definitely helps w/ being less nitpicky. 

This idea is just… /cdn-cgi/mirage/d061fbc8a99b74d9127f1b0a19a8d29641ec2a7e3541937299ee1540bc7d0bf1/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_bang.gif

I am extremely sorry to learn that.

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19 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

“A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment … but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.

And she never for a second thinks, ‘hmmm could this be anything Stark-related?’.

In TWoW, she will  B)

 

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18 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said:

It sure looked that way, My Lady.  We were still recovering from the trauma of Slynt's execution when our late Commander unloaded more shocking revelations during the meeting.  It was a crime to let Mance Rayder go without punishment.  The man was a deserter and a traitor to our Order.  He led an attack on the wall and killed many of our own.  The Commander sends him on a treasonous errand to hide his sister from the Boltons.  Then builds himself a Wildling war party for the purpose of attacking the Boltons.  No sane brother of the watch would even contemplate such treason.  It debased our Order. 

No other man of the watch had ever done such a thing. It looked like the act of a crazy man from the pov of the crows.  

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3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I’m glad to hear it. And fuck cancer. 

Absolutely. It's pretty prevalent in my family. Maternal Aunt passed away at 49 of breast cancer, maternal Grandma had colon cancer passed away from lung cancer in her 80's, mother passed away in 2019 from colon cancer, maternal aunt had colon cancer but they think they got it all so hopefully then another maternal aunt who just got done with treatment for ovarian cancer. My sister had pre-cancerous polyps at 29 years old. Clearly there are some genetics at work but they have been unable to locate a gene that is causing this. But yeah, fuck cancer :)

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