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Jon Snow is likely to go insane


Damsel in Distress
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On 2/7/2023 at 5:40 PM, Darth Sidious said:

Those Dragonlords built an empire and controlled dragons. They could never have done that if they suffered a high percentage of mental illness. The incidence of mental illness is exaggerated. And only the males seem to succumb to the illness.

This is true.  Only the males. 

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On 2/9/2023 at 5:48 PM, LongRider said:

Let's not forgot, Jon stated he would not ask his brothers to break their vows, 

"The Night's Watch takes no part in the wars of the Seven Kingdoms," Jon reminded them when some semblance of quiet had returned....snip … but I will not ask my brothers to forswear their vows.

"The Night's Watch will make for Hardhome. I ride to Winterfell alone, unless …" Jon paused. "… is there any man here who will come stand with me?"

If any black brother did not agree with Jon, they would go to Hardhome, and only if they wanted to, would they ride with Jon, it was not a command, but an ask. If they thought he was 'mad', no harm no foul.  Except for traitor Marsh and his minions.   

Indeed. I remember but thanks for posting it becuase there are some others who must've forgotten :) 

On 2/9/2023 at 10:54 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

From the looks of it, Jon was headed in the direction of going batshit crazy during his last hours.  What he was about to carry out, a savage attack on Ramsay Bolton, would have destroyed all the credibility and honor of the Night's Watch.  Jon's honor, credibility, competence, and trustworthiness are already damaged beyond repair.  How fitting if he should fall over the edge and into madness. 

Except most of that isn't true. What signs of being crazy did he show? Not a one. 

I think you are confused about an attack vs a retaliation. Or an attck vs defense. 

See. Ramsay demanded that Jon & the NW as a whole, secure fArya, Reek, Mel, Selyse, & Shireen for him & very clearly stated what he would do if his demands weren't met. 

Jon, then, decided to take the strategic advantage, knowing the upcoming battle was inevitable considering he didn't have possession of some of the people Ramsay is demanding & would be the worlds biggest POS if he handed over any of them anyway. WOW. Sounds pretty batshit crazy to me. What is he gonna do next? Probably something completely absurd like try to keep the men of NW's safe & united while punishing the mutineers. Pure lunacy. 

Also, you cannot speculate with any ounce of certainty that when Jon decided to meet Ramsay in the field (& managed to do this without involving any of his brothers, allowing them to stay behind to go to HH) that it would have destroyed the creditiblity of the watch. 

 

Seriously, do you really believe Jon & the NW should have hunted down fArya & Theon, & delivered them on a platter with Selyse, Mel, & Shireen? That sounds the very oppposite of the NW not taking a part. It also sounds the very opposite of credible, honorable, competent, or trustworthy, but to each their own. 

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On 1/14/2023 at 9:24 AM, Damsel in Distress said:

I posted a comment on this in 2017. 

If R + L = J is true, then Jon Snow is the one who will go insane.  He will have incidences of insanity from the Stark as well as the Targaryen side.  His kin, Arya Stark, is already insane. 

 

I edited, updated, and re-posted below:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Rumors of Targaryen Madness is an Exaggeration.  And a slander against the ruling House Targaryen

 

The prevalence of the madness that runs in the family is exaggerated.  A careful study of the Targaryen lineage shows that this madness is not as prevalent as their enemies would have us believe.

 

    Targaryen + Targaryen = Maegor the Cruel
    Arryn + Targaryen = Rhaenyra
    Hightower + Targaryen = Aegon II
    Rogare + Targaryen = Aegon IV
    Velaryon + Targaryen = Baelor the Blessed
    Dayne + Targaryen = Aerion Brightflame
    Kiera + Targaryen = Vaela
    Targaryen + Targaryen = Aerys II

 

In red - female parent. Non-Targaryen female parent. 

Italics – unclear whether these people were mad or simply just cruel. Vaela is likely someone who just had a below average mental capacity. 

What interests me most is that the majority of the so-called “mad” members of the family were not the direct result of T + T but rather the result of what appears to be normal pairings.  A second item of note is that the madness happens more often when the mother comes from outside the family.  This means the carriers of the madness are the male Targaryens.  Thirdly, because we are dealing with a fantasy world in which real genetics may not completely hold true, we can assume that anyone whose father is a Targaryen will have an equal chance of going mad as any other member of the family with a Targaryen father.  Also note that we have not had a female Targaryen of whom we can clearly point out as mad.  None.  Rhaenyra was a b* but being a difficult person does not make one mad.  Maegor was cruel but that doesn’t mean he was mad.  If cruelty alone make one mad then Tywin and Stannis could be labeled insane. 

 

Implications are as follows:

 

    1.  The Targaryens are the most prominent family in the series of A Song of Ice and Fire.  I do not believe George R R Martin will end this family line.  I think the family just needed a fresh start and based on my theory that the males carry the potentially damaging gene it makes sense to eliminate the male line and begin anew with a perfect Targaryen female.  Who is, of course, the Mother of Dragons herself, Daenerys Targaryen.
    2.  The Targaryen dragons also needed a refresh.  The heroine delivered once more and hatched three eggs.
    3.  Daenerys Targaryen is just fine.  She will not go mad.  Her future children are not going to go mad. 
    4.  Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon.  Should this theory of his parentage prove to be true, that Rhaegar is the father and Lyanna Stark the mother, it is very likely that it will be Jon who will go insane.

 My verdict?  Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. 

I agree with the data.  The incidence is highest when the female parent is not a Targaryen.  

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On 2/10/2023 at 11:02 AM, Prince Rhaegar Targareyen said:

This is not true. That’s not how mental illness works. Try again, eventually you’ll get something right.

An optimist, I see. Wish I could have such high hopes.

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I fully thought this was going to be a joke essay superficially cherry-picking quotes in the most nonsensical way imaginable while ignoring all facts, characterization, and logic, exactly like the Mad Queen Dany "theories" do, in order to draw attention to that.

...How I regret opening this topic.

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On 1/14/2023 at 9:24 AM, Damsel in Distress said:

I posted a comment on this in 2017. 

If R + L = J is true, then Jon Snow is the one who will go insane.  He will have incidences of insanity from the Stark as well as the Targaryen side.  His kin, Arya Stark, is already insane. 

 

I edited, updated, and re-posted below:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Rumors of Targaryen Madness is an Exaggeration.  And a slander against the ruling House Targaryen

 

The prevalence of the madness that runs in the family is exaggerated.  A careful study of the Targaryen lineage shows that this madness is not as prevalent as their enemies would have us believe.

 

    Targaryen + Targaryen = Maegor the Cruel
    Arryn + Targaryen = Rhaenyra
    Hightower + Targaryen = Aegon II
    Rogare + Targaryen = Aegon IV
    Velaryon + Targaryen = Baelor the Blessed
    Dayne + Targaryen = Aerion Brightflame
    Kiera + Targaryen = Vaela
    Targaryen + Targaryen = Aerys II

 

In red - female parent. Non-Targaryen female parent. 

Italics – unclear whether these people were mad or simply just cruel. Vaela is likely someone who just had a below average mental capacity. 

What interests me most is that the majority of the so-called “mad” members of the family were not the direct result of T + T but rather the result of what appears to be normal pairings.  A second item of note is that the madness happens more often when the mother comes from outside the family.  This means the carriers of the madness are the male Targaryens.  Thirdly, because we are dealing with a fantasy world in which real genetics may not completely hold true, we can assume that anyone whose father is a Targaryen will have an equal chance of going mad as any other member of the family with a Targaryen father.  Also note that we have not had a female Targaryen of whom we can clearly point out as mad.  None.  Rhaenyra was a b* but being a difficult person does not make one mad.  Maegor was cruel but that doesn’t mean he was mad.  If cruelty alone make one mad then Tywin and Stannis could be labeled insane. 

 

Implications are as follows:

 

    1.  The Targaryens are the most prominent family in the series of A Song of Ice and Fire.  I do not believe George R R Martin will end this family line.  I think the family just needed a fresh start and based on my theory that the males carry the potentially damaging gene it makes sense to eliminate the male line and begin anew with a perfect Targaryen female.  Who is, of course, the Mother of Dragons herself, Daenerys Targaryen.
    2.  The Targaryen dragons also needed a refresh.  The heroine delivered once more and hatched three eggs.
    3.  Daenerys Targaryen is just fine.  She will not go mad.  Her future children are not going to go mad. 
    4.  Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon.  Should this theory of his parentage prove to be true, that Rhaegar is the father and Lyanna Stark the mother, it is very likely that it will be Jon who will go insane.

 My verdict?  Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. 

Maegor just had a cruel streak similar to Theon Stark.  Maegor was the right man they needed to save the dynasty and give the faith a thorough beat down.  Aerys was the only one of the rulers who went crazy.  Brightflame was not a king.  The Targaryens were celebrities and they were in the public eye.  If there had been females who went crazy we would know about it.  Males are the only ones who went cuckoo.

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2 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Maegor just had a cruel streak similar to Theon Stark.  Maegor was the right man they needed to save the dynasty and give the faith a thorough beat down.  Aerys was the only one of the rulers who went crazy.  Brightflame was not a king.  The Targaryens were celebrities and they were in the public eye.  If there had been females who went crazy we would know about it.  Males are the only ones who went cuckoo.

Have you actually read anything about Maegor? I mean, since he’s a Targaryen I would have thought you had… but I suppose I was wrong. 
Comparing Maegor the Cruel to Theon Stark is the same level of hilarious ludicrous claim like the Black Knight telling Arthur, after losing all his limbs, that he’s not hurt, it’s just a flesh wound in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. :lol:

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2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Have you actually read anything about Maegor? I mean, since he’s a Targaryen I would have thought you had… but I suppose I was wrong. 
Comparing Maegor the Cruel to Theon Stark is the same level of hilarious ludicrous claim like the Black Knight telling Arthur, after losing all his limbs, that he’s not hurt, it’s just a flesh wound in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. /cdn-cgi/mirage/6dc3d3eb1a38505cabd90fb7ffd43995f14702a0df4cf40d6136ae67a48e140e/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_lol.gif

I’m not sure if you ever read the Berserk manga, but these Stark haters are the same kind of people that say “Griffith did nothing wrong”

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/6/2023 at 5:59 AM, James West said:

Valyria would not have ruled for 5000 years if their leading families were going crazy.  The Dragonlords and their families were close to genetic perfection.  

 

On 2/6/2023 at 9:48 AM, Craving Peaches said:

The Targaryens weren't really one of the leading families though, were they?

They were in the middle of the forty ruling families of the freehold.  While not at the top they were far from the bottom.  Even the lowest ranking of the forty families of Valyria is far greater than the strongest of Westerosi families. 

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3 minutes ago, Bowen 747 said:

 

They were in the middle of the forty ruling families of the freehold.  While not at the top they were far from the bottom.  Even the lowest ranking of the forty families of Valyria is far greater than the strongest of Westerosi families. 

Course they are! The lowest of low of the sibling fucking Valyrian are way way wayyyyyyyyy above the top highest most noble house anywhere in the universe! :rofl:

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1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

Course they are! The lowest of low of the sibling fucking Valyrian are way way wayyyyyyyyy above the top highest most noble house anywhere in the universe! :rofl:

That's why they needed dragons, their castles were above the clouds, and they needed a dragon to fly them up there. 

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7 minutes ago, Bowen 747 said:

They were in the middle of the forty ruling families of the freehold.  While not at the top they were far from the bottom. 

Wiki literally says they were 'not considered a powerful family' so I really doubt they were a part of the Fourty Families since these would be, you know, powerful families, which the Targaryens specifically are not.

8 minutes ago, Bowen 747 said:

Even the lowest ranking of the forty families of Valyria is far greater than the strongest of Westerosi families. 

Yeah, in terms of inbreeding coefficient. Well done for winning the smallest gene pool competition for the hundredth century in a row!

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On 2/28/2023 at 5:04 PM, Bowen 747 said:

 

They were in the middle of the forty ruling families of the freehold.  While not at the top they were far from the bottom.  Even the lowest ranking of the forty families of Valyria is far greater than the strongest of Westerosi families. 

Even the lowest of the forty ruling families of Valyria is far greater than the Starks. 

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4 hours ago, Darth Sidious said:

Even the lowest of the forty ruling families of Valyria is far greater than the Starks. 

Yes, far greater at getting themselves incinerated. That's like the Starks freezing to death. Except the Starks would never be stupid or arrogant enough to do that. The Forty Families were such fools that they pissed off the Gods and killed themselves. Whoops.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 2/28/2023 at 5:04 PM, Bowen 747 said:

 

They were in the middle of the forty ruling families of the freehold.  While not at the top they were far from the bottom.  Even the lowest ranking of the forty families of Valyria is far greater than the strongest of Westerosi families. 

Far greater.  And the Targaryens are the rightful rulers of all because they are the descendants of the Empresses and Emperors of the Great Empire Of The Dawn.  

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