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Tully Madness


Sydney Mae
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3 hours ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

George Martin referred to Arya Stark as a psycho.

Where did he say this? I want a source. Not just you saying it.

3 hours ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

All you have to do is read the Arya chapters to see how ill she is. 

If you read those chapters you would not think she was insane.

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2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Where did he say this? I want a source. Not just you saying it.

If you read those chapters you would not think she was insane.

He said something like that but it's clear from the context and the quote itself that he was joking.  It certainly wasn't meant to be taken seriously, nor should it be.

Edited by Nevets
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Here's one:

Quote

CONJOSE (SAN JOSE, CA; AUGUST 29-SEPTEMBER 2) | PERMALINK  SUBMITTED BY: AGHRIVAINE  [Note: The following several reports all come from ConJose. Rather than break each indivdual report into its own place, each reporter has all of their statements placed in one entry.]  So, I asked a bunch of questions that got an "excellent cheese" response from George, who was at least amused enough by our observation that he used cheese to change the subject that he went on to use cheese as the *only* subject change... Anyway, here are the questions that I asked that got an "excellent cheese" response, and others can chime in with theirs. Other questions got outright "No, that's just wrong" (most of them Trebla's!)

[...]

I also opined that "A Song of Ice and Fire" might as well be titled "A Song of Child Abuse" since children get such poor treatment. Oh, and I did get another "excellent cheese" when I observed that Arya is incredibly psychotic for an 11 year old girl.

:dunno:

So - cheese (he wants to get off the subject), but also excellent (there's something interesting there). It's not going to be  'Arya is psychotic', because that would be ugly, stupid writing. There will be something flowing from his world-building - she's bonded to a direwolf (both of you will change),, and 'wolf-blooded', and probably much more. Gods. Destiny.

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On 4/30/2023 at 10:36 AM, Bowen 747 said:

A lot of people get subjected to prolonged stress and they do not snap.  The slaves in Meereen suffered more than Catelyn and Lysa.  Madness or the predisposition to become insane do run in the Tullys and their children. 

Many slaves did “snap.”  They took brutal revenge on their masters.  But, that’s not “insane”. That’s natural.  Likewise, the behaviour of Catelyn and Arya.

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38 minutes ago, Darth Sidious said:

Environment helped to push Arya along. We can’t take that excuse away but what she inherited from the Tully half is a cause as well. 

Yep, inheriting a powerful sense of right and wrong, strong empathy, impulsiveness, and a hot temper can lead to regrettable actions when combined with a violent wartime environment.  And she's still a better person than any of the main Lannisters.

Edited by Nevets
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/9/2023 at 10:45 PM, Nevets said:

Yep, inheriting a powerful sense of right and wrong, strong empathy, impulsiveness, and a hot temper can lead to regrettable actions when combined with a violent wartime environment.  And she's still a better person than any of the main Lannisters.

A sense of right and wrong in the beginning that have since been corrupted. Though the causes are many, some were out of her control, some were choices, and then the Tully madness talked about might have made their contributions to Arya’s current mental condition. Sandor and Jaquen damaged Arya because they were homicidal role models. 

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On 1/16/2023 at 4:47 AM, Sydney Mae said:

The Tully sisters went mad.  Catelyn Tully-Stark and Lysa Tully-Arryn were showing signs of madness and emotional fragility.  Lysa had it from her youth to her death.  Catelyn lost it at the wedding.  She cut Aegon Frey's throat and killed him.  Catelyn went mad that minute.  There is insanity in the Tully blood.  Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran, and Rickon are half Tully.  Cat's brood inherited the gene predisposing them to insanity.  I know stress can trigger the disease.   

I wrote about it years ago (not here, but in my country's asoiaf forum). The last generation of Tully women are like iron like Stannis (Jon already used the iron analogy for Cat); they break before they bend. The traumas they've been through are hard psychologically destroying them.

However, among Cat's children, I saw only Sansa in this danger, because she resembles Cat not only in appearance but also in behavior and temperament. For years it has been commented that Sansa is more like her mother's side than her father's. Sansa's psychology is also not in a good state, and GRRM has made a statement in the past pointing out her psychology.

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34 minutes ago, YeniAy_Ottoman said:

I wrote about it years ago (not here, but in my country's asoiaf forum). The last generation of Tully women are like iron like Stannis (Jon already used the iron analogy for Cat); they break before they bend. The traumas they've been through are hard psychologically destroying them.

However, among Cat's children, I saw only Sansa in this danger, because she resembles Cat not only in appearance but also in behavior and temperament. For years it has been commented that Sansa is more like her mother's side than her father's. Sansa's psychology is also not in a good state, and GRRM has made a statement in the past pointing out her psychology.

Arya's illness has already started.  It's possible for Sansa.  What will make Sansa fall to the dark is not madness but because she is selfish and easy to manipulate.  LF knows her weakness and will use it like strings to move Sansa around. 

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24 minutes ago, YeniAy_Ottoman said:

I wrote about it years ago (not here, but in my country's asoiaf forum). The last generation of Tully women are like iron like Stannis (Jon already used the iron analogy for Cat); they break before they bend. The traumas they've been through are hard psychologically destroying them.

However, among Cat's children, I saw only Sansa in this danger, because she resembles Cat not only in appearance but also in behavior and temperament. For years it has been commented that Sansa is more like her mother's side than her father's. Sansa's psychology is also not in a good state, and GRRM has made a statement in the past pointing out her psychology.

Actually, I think In terms of attitude and temperament, Sansa is closer to her father, and Arya to her mother.  And Ned is the rigid one that doesn't bend.  Ned was very focused on honor, and obeying the rules and the law.  His rigid sense of honor and rules led him to support Stannis and fail to enact a coup when Robert was mortally wounded.  He expected people to do right thing and was surprised when they didn't.  Sansa's was like that at first as well, but has learned better.

Catelyn and Arya are believers in honor and rules as well, but are more flexible and aren't as surprised when things don't work out.  Also, they are currently both in vengeful mode, wanting to hurt those who have hurt them.  In terms of psychological state, I worry a lot more about Arya than Sansa.

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1 hour ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Arya's illness has already started.  It's possible for Sansa.  What will make Sansa fall to the dark is not madness but because she is selfish and easy to manipulate.  LF knows her weakness and will use it like strings to move Sansa around. 

 

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

Actually, I think In terms of attitude and temperament, Sansa is closer to her father, and Arya to her mother.  And Ned is the rigid one that doesn't bend.  Ned was very focused on honor, and obeying the rules and the law.  His rigid sense of honor and rules led him to support Stannis and fail to enact a coup when Robert was mortally wounded.  He expected people to do right thing and was surprised when they didn't.  Sansa's was like that at first as well, but has learned better.

Catelyn and Arya are believers in honor and rules as well, but are more flexible and aren't as surprised when things don't work out.  Also, they are currently both in vengeful mode, wanting to hurt those who have hurt them.  In terms of psychological state, I worry a lot more about Arya than Sansa.

Many characters in the book, including Arya, are actually traumatized, and Arya's first trauma starts with Mycah.

But not everyone who is traumatized will turn into Lysa and Cat. There is no doubt that every child takes something from their parents. There's nothing more natural than that, but it's clear that Sansa is more like her mother. I'm not going to claim that Arya is more like her father, yes, she took something from him, but she doesn't resemble him much in terms of personality, it's not for nothing that she's compared to her aunt Lyanna. It might be more accurate to say that Arya is more like her Stark ancestors...

but it's obvious to me that Sansa is starting to have "psychological" problems, I haven't seen any signs of Arya's Tully madness, her situation is similar to the stories of traumatized child soldiers (Martin said something like that). In today's parlance, she suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder.

The situation for Sansa is a bit complicated, in addition to PTSD, her false memories and the fact that she started to remember the lies she told as truth, and GRRM's implicit insinuation that her false memory is "what does it mean for her psychology?" indicate that she is facing a problem similar to the problem of the Tully women. Of course, I don't think she will be subjected to a madness in the form of her aunt and mother, I think she will have more of an identity crisis and start to integrate with Aleyna.

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6 hours ago, YeniAy_Ottoman said:

 

Many characters in the book, including Arya, are actually traumatized, and Arya's first trauma starts with Mycah.

But not everyone who is traumatized will turn into Lysa and Cat. There is no doubt that every child takes something from their parents. There's nothing more natural than that, but it's clear that Sansa is more like her mother. I'm not going to claim that Arya is more like her father, yes, she took something from him, but she doesn't resemble him much in terms of personality, it's not for nothing that she's compared to her aunt Lyanna. It might be more accurate to say that Arya is more like her Stark ancestors...

but it's obvious to me that Sansa is starting to have "psychological" problems, I haven't seen any signs of Arya's Tully madness, her situation is similar to the stories of traumatized child soldiers (Martin said something like that). In today's parlance, she suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder.

The situation for Sansa is a bit complicated, in addition to PTSD, her false memories and the fact that she started to remember the lies she told as truth, and GRRM's implicit insinuation that her false memory is "what does it mean for her psychology?" indicate that she is facing a problem similar to the problem of the Tully women. Of course, I don't think she will be subjected to a madness in the form of her aunt and mother, I think she will have more of an identity crisis and start to integrate with Aleyna.

I think you’ve joined recently, so here’s a quick heads up: there’s no such thing as “Tully madness” in the novels. However, there is a small and very loud group of “readers” who hate, hate, hate anything Stark and they keep coming up w/ dumb af threads that are nothing more than thinly veiled hate threads. 
When these idiotic threads get bumped to page 2 or 3, they’re quickly resurrected or a new one is created to replace it. Tully madness, Jon is going crazy, Bran is the villain (Jon is also the villain), etc etc etc ad nauseam
On the other hand, Ramsay is awesome, Walder Frey is the most honourable man ever, and Janos Slynt is a truly heroic hero. It’s mind-boggling but that’s where we are. :dunno:

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52 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

On the other hand, Ramsay is awesome, Walder Frey is the most honourable man ever, and Janos Slynt is a truly heroic hero. It’s mind-boggling but that’s where we are.

Also, let's shed a tear for Saint Bowen Marsh, the mastermind of the Attack of the StewardsTM  for without him, the evil Jon Snow would still be wreaking havoc at the Wall.  Bows head, sniffs, gives the audience a side eye. 

Oh fuck it, just kidding! 

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40 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Also, let's shed a tear for Saint Bowen Marsh, the mastermind of the Attack of the StewardsTM  for without him, the evil Jon Snow would still be wreaking havoc at the Wall.  Bows head, sniffs, gives the audience a side eye. 

Oh fuck it, just kidding! 

Damn, I knew I was forgetting someone! It was Saint Bowen Marsh! :bawl:

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