King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Let this stupid nonsensical topic die. Terrorthatflapsinthenight9, Ser Arthurs Dawn, Craving Peaches and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Both Lysa and Catelyn’s “madness” is trauma based. Especially Cat. Absolutely, 100% not from their genetics. Sweet Robin isn’t mad, just weird because of his mother’s overattachment to him. Only a few characters in ASOIAF seem to be mad from birth. -Baelor “the Blessed” Targaryen -Rhaegal Targaryen - Aerys II Targaryen None of them related to House Tully. Arguing the Tully’s carry madness in their genes is absurd and stupid. As the argument is, so to are the people who argue it. Craving Peaches, Raven Princling, Many-Faced Votary and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 12 minutes ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said: -Baelor “the Blessed” Targaryen -Baelor "the Based" Targaryen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 14 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: Both of them went 'crazy' due to external events. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Tullys are genetically predisposed to madness. People should cease and desist with these arguments that are clearly made in bad faith. Have to agree in sentiment but I'm not convinced Lysa is mad. She's certainly emotionally unstable, self-centred, foolish, capricious and temperamentally ill-suited for power but is that enough to be deemed crazy? It's easy to refer to her actions sometimes as crazy or label her as "batshit crazy" but the same is true of Cersei. Neither is well-adjusted and both have glaring character or behavioural flaws but neither is "mad". Lysa's conduct is largely driven by her deep unhappiness. A childish infatuation with Petyr Baelish led to an accidental pregnancy, a forced termination and an unhappy marriage to a much older man who knew of her indiscretion. She clings to Sweetrobin and smothers him because he is all she has. Jon Arryn's plan to foster the boy with Stannis led her to murder him and flee to The Eyrie at LF's instigation but he's been playing her like a harp for years. Her resentment of her family for her forced marriage and her resentment of both Catelyn and Sansa for being the object of LF's affections lead her to fiddle in The Eyrie while Westeros burns but this is a bitter, unhappy woman enjoying being her own mistress for the first time in her life. Her judgments and actions are atrocious but they are understandable. Traumatic events leave a mark and unhappiness makes people bitter, distrustful and dangerous. Genetics have nothing to do with Lysa's behaviour. But that's not as much fun as the "Tully/Stark madness" chew toys currently in vogue. Craving Peaches, LongRider, kissdbyfire and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 minute ago, the trees have eyes said: Have to agree in sentiment but I'm not convinced Lysa is mad. I agree, that's why I put crazy in quotation marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 How is Cat crazy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 18 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: How is Cat crazy? She isn’t. Raven Princling, Many-Faced Votary, Ser Arthurs Dawn and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 13 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: How is Cat crazy? Apparently because her finally losing it after the death of her husband, Bran, Rickon, probably Arya, Sansa's marriage to her enemies, and watching her eldest son and king die in front of her was very unreasonable. I think people forget that she also bottled up her grief and emotions so she could be strong for Robb. Repressing your emotions is a ticking time bomb. Obviously Robb's death was the breaking point for her, but her repressed emotions were tied in to her reaction as well. Craving Peaches, Many-Faced Votary and King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 21 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: How is Cat crazy? She went hysterical in her last moments of live due to watching her last living child being murdered in front of her. They think that makes her crazy. Ser Arthurs Dawn and Many-Faced Votary 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said: Apparently because her finally losing it after the death of her husband, Bran, Rickon, probably Arya, Sansa's marriage to her enemies, and watching her eldest son and king die in front of her was very unreasonable. I think people forget that she also bottled up her grief and emotions so she could be strong for Robb. Repressing your emotions is a ticking time bomb. Obviously Robb's death was the breaking point for her, but her repressed emotions were tied in to her reaction as well. 6 minutes ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said: She went hysterical in her last moments of live due to watching her last living child being murdered in front of her. They think that makes her crazy. Word, she had a moment of hysterics. But since the RW she appears pretty lucid to me. More lucid in any case then her sister was Craving Peaches, Ser Arthurs Dawn and Many-Faced Votary 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 27 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: How is Cat crazy? She isn't. You can make the case that during the final moments of her life she had a psychotic episode, but that is not the same as being crazy, and it had a very clear external cause as opposed to being mad due to genetics. There is no evidence for Catelyn being mad due to 'genetics', none at all. People are making stuff up so they can criticise the Tullys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Word, she had a moment of hysterics. But since the RW she appears pretty lucid to me. More lucid in any case then her sister was Exactly. Find me a human being with a heart who wouldn’t lose their shit in that moment. It doesn’t make someone crazy. And now she is back, fueled by a single desire. Justice. Ser Arthurs Dawn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 'Tis the Muppet blood, I tell you. Many-Faced Votary, kissdbyfire and LongRider 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 38 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: How is Cat crazy? Since we’re elaborating on this non-issue… Cat isn’t crazy but she is “guilty by association” b/c she married into the Stark family. And then her whole family are in turn guilty by association again, b/c Cat married into the Stark family. Yes, we are now so deep into the deranged hatred hole that this topic passes for an actual discussion of the novels. I now roll my eyes reading this nonsense so hard and so often that not only I can see the back of my skull, but I’m going to get repetitive strain injury in my optic nerve. I'm fully expecting the upcoming “guilty by association hate threads” on everyone and their aunts who’s ever came within 100 miles of any Stark. Ser Arthurs Dawn, Many-Faced Votary, Craving Peaches and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 10 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: 'Tis the Muppet blood, I tell you. Lord Kermit and Grover shall rise to avenge your mockery Corvinus85 and Many-Faced Votary 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 22 minutes ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said: Exactly. Find me a human being with a heart who wouldn’t lose their shit in that moment. It doesn’t make someone crazy. And now she is back, fueled by a single desire. Justice. 22 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: 'Tis the Muppet blood, I tell you. 12 minutes ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said: Lord Kermit and Grover shall rise to avenge your mockery Well this is a bit of a chicken and egg situation isn't it? What kind of person named Kermit or Grover can live a life of sanity? Also, what kind of nut bag would name their kid after a muppet? Many-Faced Votary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 9 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: /cdn-cgi/mirage/6dc3d3eb1a38505cabd90fb7ffd43995f14702a0df4cf40d6136ae67a48e140e/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_cheers.gif Well this is a bit of a chicken and egg situation isn't it? What kind of person named Kermit or Grover can live a life of sanity? Also, what kind of nut bag would name their kid after a muppet? I find it amusing but also annoying. Like they live during an interesting and important time, yet their names make me laugh every time I see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: I agree, that's why I put crazy in quotation marks. Oh, I know. I was agreeing with you then leveraging the same post to elaborate on Lysa. 41 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: She isn't. You can make the case that during the final moments of her life she had a psychotic episode, but that is not the same as being crazy, and it had a very clear external cause as opposed to being mad due to genetics. Which makes her end all the more poignant. Overcome by grief and despair, she's one step away from clawing her own eyes out 36 minutes ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said: And now she is back, fueled by a single desire. Justice. I'm of the view that Cat is now "unCat", further heaping indignities in GRRM's savage treatment of her. With Beric we see that he loses part of himself and his memories but that what motivates him most strongly and that what he holds to the closest is what he felt in the last moments of his life - a duty to protect and serve the realm. With unCat I fear that what she'll hold to most closely is the loss she suffered and the desire for revenge. Whatever GRRM is up to it looks appalling enough: mushrooms growing on her face, having to clasp both hands over her throat to manage an approximation of speech because of how deeply the blade cut into her vocal cords. She has only been resurrected the once but Thoros refused because of how long she had been dead and Beric sacrificed himself to do it. The BWB appear darker with her at the helm. As we see with her hanging Brienne, I'm not sure how much of the real Catelyn is left. Craving Peaches and Many-Faced Votary 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 3 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said: With Beric we see that he loses part of himself and his memories but that what motivates him most strongly and that what he holds to the closest is what he felt in the last moments of his life - a duty to protect and serve the realm. With unCat I fear that what she'll hold to most closely is the loss she suffered and the desire for revenge. These are such important points and should be kept in mind when/if other characters become undead. What was happening to them when they died? From the actions of Beric and LS their final experiences very strongly influence their undead experience. Many-Faced Votary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 19 minutes ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said: I find it amusing but also annoying. Like they live during an interesting and important time, yet their names make me laugh every time I see them. Lol exactly. Like, who am I rooting for? (I think they were like temp names that GRRM fell in love with. My thinking is these games I play, Monkey Island, (like 30 years of games, only 6 games but still) the main character didn't have a name when being designed, so he was just called Guy and the program generator or whatever was called Brush, in due time when it came to think of a name, they just named him what they called him. Guybrush. Anyway that's my theory, because anything else is ridiculous) 7 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said: As we see with her hanging Brienne, I'm not sure how much of the real Catelyn is left. She's looking for her kids, with a parchment stating she's working for Tommen, armed with a perverted Ice and mouthing off about the Kingslayer. There is no version of Catelyn "Cat" Tully Stark Stoneheart that would let that slide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.