The Starks deserved to fall.

[Springwatch]

51 minutes ago, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes said:

Brandon Stark and his band of thugs bursts into the throne room of King Aerys Targaryen and threatens to murder the royal family.  Without proof, without calm dialogue, and showing no respect, the idiot makes threats.  

He made his threats outside the gates, and to Rhaegar only, irrc. Not a serious threat then, just the customary threats before a duel. Brandon likes a duel.

[Craving Peaches]

31 minutes ago, Maegor Targaryen I said:

Just stop talking. No one takes you seriously

Have you seen the 'Bowen Marsh the Martyr' stuff yet?

[Maegor_the_Cool]

1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said:

Have you seen the 'Bowen Marsh the Martyr' stuff yet?

Yes unfortunately 

[Rondo]

On 1/17/2023 at 6:50 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The Starks fell and they fell hard.  They lost both parents, their lands, their castle, and their reputation.  The Starks deserved their fall.  Here are some of the reasons:

1. The Starks have never understood the pillars of power.  Ned should have negotiated with Lord Tywin instead of sending an inadequate force to arrest the mountain and name Tywin a criminal.  Robb and Jon also do not have an understanding of power.  Robb betrayed his allies.  Jon was inept at communication and he used his command position to enact revenge on a powerful member of the night's watch.
2. The Starks are unsophisticated.  In the north, they have always ruled by the threat of force.  In the south, they could not do that.  They had to depend on making alliances with politicians like Petyr Baelish and Lord Varys.  It seems to me, Ned considered this an inconvenience.  But that is politics.  The Starks are blunt, unsophisticated, and do not have the skills to navigate politics.  They lacked in the social skills.
3. Robb Stark chose to take the main forces of the north and march them south in rebellion.  Keep in mind, this is the second time the Starks have pulled the north into rebellion.  Both instances over a family matter.  If the Starks were so loved they would not have had to threaten GreatJon.  Roose and Barbrey went along because they had no choice.  Lord Walder had to be negotiated before they would support the Starks.  The one man who went willingly was Karstark, and look how the Starks rewarded him.
4. The Starks put family first.  Catelyn's behavior reflects this.  She kidnaps Tyrion without proof.  She knew what the Lannisters were like.  She knew the consequences to the lives of many and she did it anyway.  All of that bother for one little boy.  She wanted justice for Bran and caused thousands of her own people at the Riverlands to lose their villages, lives, and crops when Tywin retaliated.  Jon Snow betrayed the Night's Watch, for one little girl!  He chose to endanger the only thing standing between the realm and the White Walkers just for the sake of one little sister.  Arya is on a murdering streak to kill everybody who has stood against her family.  She is killing innocents like the insurance man and Dareon on the side to achieve her goals.  Catelyn betrays the men supporting their rebellion when she released their main bargaining chip, Jaime Lannister, for the sake of getting back her daughter. 

There are many more reason why the Starks deserved to fall.  I am counting on you to build the list.  Thanks

Catelyn is getting the punishment for what she did.  Hers is the life of a zombie who only knows hate.  She is being punished for her crime.  Not about releasing Jaime but arresting Tyrion at the inn.  Catelyn had no call to do that.  Many innocent peasants lost their lives because of that dumb decision.  

[The Lord of the Crossing]

12 hours ago, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes said:

Brandon Stark and his band of thugs bursts into the throne room of King Aerys Targaryen and threatens to murder the royal family.  Without proof, without calm dialogue, and showing no respect, the idiot makes threats.  

Brandon enjoyed the hospitality of the dungeons for a time.  Varys and his little birds squeezed all of the information out of him.  Brandon told all.  The plot to overthrow the Targaryens and the use of weddings to bond the conspirators together.  The Starks and the Baratheons had their small victory while it lasted.  Then they were served a dose of their own medicine.  Stannis and Shireen are beggars at the wall.  The Starks are either in the ground fertilizing the soil or are struggling.  The Starks have had their long string of morons.  Brandon and Jon are the two that readily come to mind. 

[Maegor_the_Cool]

1 hour ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Brandon enjoyed the hospitality of the dungeons for a time.  Varys and his little birds squeezed all of the information out of him.  Brandon told all.  The plot to overthrow the Targaryens and the use of weddings to bond the conspirators together.  The Starks and the Baratheons had their small victory while it lasted.  Then they were served a dose of their own medicine.  Stannis and Shireen are beggars at the wall.  The Starks are either in the ground fertilizing the soil or are struggling.  The Starks have had their long string of morons.  Brandon and Jon are the two that readily come to mind. 

“Oh my good friend Tywin is finally here to save me! Open the gates!” - King Dipshit

[H Wadsworth Longfellow]

On 1/21/2023 at 11:21 PM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Brandon enjoyed the hospitality of the dungeons for a time.  Varys and his little birds squeezed all of the information out of him.  Brandon told all.  The plot to overthrow the Targaryens and the use of weddings to bond the conspirators together.  The Starks and the Baratheons had their small victory while it lasted.  Then they were served a dose of their own medicine.  Stannis and Shireen are beggars at the wall.  The Starks are either in the ground fertilizing the soil or are struggling.  The Starks have had their long string of morons.  Brandon and Jon are the two that readily come to mind. 

What song did Brandon sing. 

[Maegor_the_Cool]

4 hours ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

What song did Brandon sing. 

Prince Pretty Boy Grapist kidnapped my sister

[Vaegon the dragonless]

On 1/22/2023 at 5:21 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Brandon enjoyed the hospitality of the dungeons for a time.  Varys and his little birds squeezed all of the information out of him.  Brandon told all.  The plot to overthrow the Targaryens and the use of weddings to bond the conspirators together.  The Starks and the Baratheons had their small victory while it lasted.  Then they were served a dose of their own medicine.  Stannis and Shireen are beggars at the wall.  The Starks are either in the ground fertilizing the soil or are struggling.  The Starks have had their long string of morons.  Brandon and Jon are the two that readily come to mind. 

Ok I have a question here because I see again and again in those stark hate posts that the Baratheons and Starks were preparing to betray the targaryen, but where does that come from ? Like How is marrying your kids together  preparing to betray the Targaryen in a world where marrying you equals in ranks is the norm. The reason to why they rebelled is simple, Aerys killed the lord and heir stark, then demanded the head of the new lord stark, aswell a the head of the lord of Storms End who had nothing to do with the whole affair. And lets not pretend that it is the Vale and Jon Arryn that declared the rebellion, and the Tully's had to be bought. The Lannister rebelled at the very end, showing they were just waiting to see what happened. Dorne supported the Targaryen but mainly due to rhe fact that Aerys was threatning the life of Elia, not really willing allies and Tmthe Tyrells were very luck warm, they tried to get Robert once, defeated is army but failed to capture him and then they juste left him alone and basically stayed out of the war. It is not like the realm was all in for the Targaryen by that point anyway. So to come back to my original point, where does the idea that the Stark were part of a anti-Targaryen conspiracy come from and what are the proofs of it ?

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

10 hours ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

What song did Brandon sing. 

"Papa and good friend Robert plan to take the throne from the Targaryens," Brandon finally admitted after the Eunuch removed his last toenail with a rusty pair of tools. 

 

[Craving Peaches]

54 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

"Papa and good friend Robert plan to take the throne from the Targaryens," Brandon finally admitted after the Eunuch removed his last toenail with a rusty pair of tools. 

When did this happen?

Do you really believe Robert of all people was scheming to take the Throne?

And why is Brandon speaking like that?

[SeanF]

I think that most rulers would have taken it as the prelude to an uprising, if Lords Paramount, who had previously intermarried with their Bannermen, were now intermarrying their children to each other.

Aerys of course, inflamed the situation with his tyranny and cruelty.

Aegon V was also branded a tyrant by much of the nobility.  Tyranny means not just harming the nobility without reason, but also interfering with their rights to exploit the smallfolk.  I could well imagine that many nobles were looking for a king who would be more malleable.

[Angel Eyes]

5 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

"Papa and good friend Robert plan to take the throne from the Targaryens," Brandon finally admitted after the Eunuch removed his last toenail with a rusty pair of tools. 

 

Is that what it was? I thought it was "Robert's Rebellion was built on a lie".

[Maegor_the_Cool]

The conspiracy was to seperate the 7K back into 7 and dispatch the Targaryens. Who’s King had become increasingly irrational, insane, and cruel. 
 

And I believe Rhaegar realized what was going to happen and stepped in. Instead of putting the plan into the light for all to see, he hijacked it and turned it into a coup to put Rhaegar on the throne. Where I’d expect him to make some concessions. TBH I think he was wholly focused on the Others and less in the survival of the dynasty. He was obsessed with the prophecies in his dreams, from the Ghost of High Heart, and possibly Aegon’s prophecy. Then he met Lyanna realized what he needed to do fulfill his end of the prophecy and either kidnapped her or convinced her of its importance. But stupidly didn’t mention it to anyone. 
 

Or, another possibility on that front. Lyanna told Benjen. But for some reason Benjen didn’t or couldn’t tell Brandon in time, and by that point it was too late. Benjen feels guilty, and joins the Watch voluntarily as penance.

[Quoth the raven,]

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

I think that most rulers would have taken it as the prelude to an uprising, if Lords Paramount, who had previously intermarried with their Bannermen, were now intermarrying their children to each other.

Those marriages were a clear threat to the Targaryens.  It would have been obvious to even Brandon what it could do to the established political order.  No way in hell those marriage arrangements were innocent.  Aerys and the Targaryens had the right to stop them.

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

Aerys of course, inflamed the situation with his tyranny and cruelty.

Aerys should have had Robert and Ned assassinated in secret.  He was fine up until he sent the request to that old fool in the Eyrie.  Rickard had to die.  Obviously.  Aerys and his people set him up good.  Just like Jon set up Janos Slynt.  Rickard was lured to the south and he was never going to make it back to the north.

8 hours ago, SeanF said:

Aegon V was also branded a tyrant by much of the nobility.  Tyranny means not just harming the nobility without reason, but also interfering with their rights to exploit the smallfolk.  I could well imagine that many nobles were looking for a king who would be more malleable.

 

[SeanF]

10 minutes ago, Quoth the raven, said:

Those marriages were a clear threat to the Targaryens.  It would have been obvious to even Brandon what it could do to the established political order.  No way in hell those marriage arrangements were innocent.  Aerys and the Targaryens had the right to stop them.

Aerys should have had Robert and Ned assassinated in secret.  He was fine up until he sent the request to that old fool in the Eyrie.  Rickard had to die.  Obviously.  Aerys and his people set him up good.  Just like Jon set up Janos Slynt.  Rickard was lured to the south and he was never going to make it back to the north.

 

Aerys broke all the accepted rules.

Once he demanded it, Rickard was entitled to a trial by combat, not a sadistic murder.  Nor Brandon.  And neither Ned nor Robert merited death.

[Craving Peaches]

The only source for the Starks' marriages being part of some grand conspiracy was a bitter old woman who, surprise surprise, has a grudge against the Starks.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

41 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

The only source for the Starks' marriages being part of some grand conspiracy was a bitter old woman who, surprise surprise, has a grudge against the Starks.

Rather she's bitter because she couldn't marry Brandon.

[Angel Eyes]

4 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

Those marriages were a clear threat to the Targaryens.  It would have been obvious to even Brandon what it could do to the established political order.  No way in hell those marriage arrangements were innocent.  Aerys and the Targaryens had the right to stop them.

 

If Aerys had the right to stop the marriages, why didn't he try?

4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

The only source for the Starks' marriages being part of some grand conspiracy was a bitter old woman who, surprise surprise, has a grudge against the Starks.

Granted said marriages weren't thought out very well, with Robert and Lyanna being the clearest example (until Jon married Lysa that is).

[The Lord of the Crossing]

On 1/20/2023 at 3:39 AM, Rosetta Stone said:

#2 is very good.  The Starks never bothered to consider where power comes from.  They are not a particularly strong house and they should have known the importance of maintaining good relations with guys like Walder Frey and Rickard Karstark.  The Starks are slow. 

It took them a thousand years or more to finally defeat the Boltons.