The Lord of the Crossing Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 On 1/23/2023 at 3:54 PM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said: What song did Brandon sing. Confession of his father's intent to oppose the Targaryens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 Can’t believe a stupid thread like this is still going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord of the Crossing Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 On 1/24/2023 at 2:49 PM, SeanF said: Aerys broke all the accepted rules. Once he demanded it, Rickard was entitled to a trial by combat, not a sadistic murder. Nor Brandon. And neither Ned nor Robert merited death. Brandon deserved death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 minute ago, The Lord of the Crossing said: Confession of his father's intent to oppose the Targaryens. Oh what an evil bastard Rickard was to oppose a king who cranked his rooster to people burning alive. What a monster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 Just now, The Lord of the Crossing said: Brandon deserved death. Deserved? Maybe from a legal perspective. It was pretty stupid to shout for the Crown Prince to “Come out and die!” But from a moral standpoint, no. He was pissed that 26 year old Rhaegar kidnapped his 16 year old sister. As far as I’m concerned if Brandon had actually ran into Rhaegar and gutted him in the throne room it’d be 100% morally justifiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Fenimore Cooper XXII Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 On 1/24/2023 at 10:55 AM, Angel Eyes said: Is that what it was? I thought it was "Robert's Rebellion was built on a lie". The fool didn't live to see Robert's Rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 On 1/27/2023 at 6:04 AM, KingEuronGreyjoy said: Deserved? Maybe from a legal perspective I don't think he necessarily deserved death from a legal perspective either. Aerys perverted the trial by combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said: I don't think he necessarily deserved death from a legal perspective either. Aerys perverted the trial by combat. Brandon specifically shouted “come out and die”. While I would interpret that as a challenge for a duel, it could just be interpreted as a death threat. Threatening the crown Prince is certainly punishable by death. But given the context of Rhaegar kidnapping his young sister, any rational and sane king would’ve handled it with a more deft and understanding hand. Instead Aerys went full dipshit psycho and murdered both Brandon and his father in a grotesque and monsterous fashion. Aerys and Rhaegar brought what happened on themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 19 minutes ago, King Robb of Winterfell said: Brandon specifically shouted “come out and die”. While I would interpret that as a challenge for a duel, it could just be interpreted as a death threat. What I meant was how Aerys interfered with the trial by combat. The whole point is that the Gods are supposed to judge if Brandon is innocent or not, not Aerys. I think what Aerys did rendered the Trial void. It turned it into a torture and execution, which Aerys should only be entitled to do after the trial is concluded if Brandon is found guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 On 1/27/2023 at 1:00 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said: Confession of his father's intent to oppose the Targaryens. Brandon's confession revealed incriminating information about what Lady Dustin called "Southron Ambitions." Brandon would have had more information because he was one of the ones conspiring against the Targaryens. Too bad this information was not known to Varys and his king during Harrenhal. The royals might have arranged a fatal accident for Robert during the tourney. It was the perfect moment to get rid of a disloyal young man. And the tussle with the squires? That was the time to accidentally rid them of Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, Rondo said: Brandon's confession revealed incriminating information about what Lady Dustin called "Southron Ambitions." There was no confession from Brandon that we know of. 22 minutes ago, Rondo said: Brandon would have had more information because he was one of the ones conspiring against the Targaryens. Okay, even if there was a conspiracy, why would Brandon and Robert, two hot-headed, quick-tempered young men, be involved? If there is some actual plot they are very unlikely to be included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 I would like to see proof of this so-called conspiracy involving the North as well, which isn't bitter Barbrey's statement. Because as far as I can see, that is the only reference to it in the entire series. And it's not like Barbrey is biased towards the Starks, oh no, she's completely reliable regarding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkTullies Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Rondo said: Brandon's confession revealed incriminating information about what Lady Dustin called "Southron Ambitions." Brandon would have had more information because he was one of the ones conspiring against the Targaryens. Too bad this information was not known to Varys and his king during Harrenhal. The royals might have arranged a fatal accident for Robert during the tourney. It was the perfect moment to get rid of a disloyal young man. And the tussle with the squires? That was the time to accidentally rid them of Lyanna. If Brandon confessed anything, why would King Aerys keep that a secret? Why would he hide a "justified" reason to kill the Starks? There would have plenty of witnesses to Brandon's torture-induced confession (if it happened, which it didn't), and there is no motive for him to keep it a secret. Brandon's confession isn't known because it didn't happen. The only evidence of anyone conspiring against the Targaryens prior to Aerys killing the Starks was Rhaegar himself against his own father (see his final words to Jaime). If Lyanna's betrothal to Robert was part of some great conspiracy, she was just part of her father's scheme and she obviously wanted no part of it. Yet you still think that Mad Aerys should have covertly murdered this 16-year-old girl. Lady Dustin's complaints about Rickard marrying his sons to somebody other than her is not proof of a Targaryen conspiracy; it is proof of her own envy and nothing more. Nor are these "southern ambitions" a secret. If Brandon "confessed" that he was to marry Catelyn and Lyanna was to marry Robert... that was already common information. It is also unwise to take Lady Dustin's conversation with "Reek" at her word. Reek was Ramsay's "loyal pet"; do you think she's going to speak honestly with him? Varys would have certainly known if there was vast conspiracy against the Targaryens. He is a bit more informed than Lady Dustin. I also don't know why you think Varys is on the Targaryens' side. He isn't. He only "supported" Dany (while simultaneously reporting her movements to Robert, which he didn't have to do, and then sent an assassin after her) as the wife of Young Griff. He supports "Aegon" from everything we can tell... and the likelihood that Young Griff is a real Targaryen is very small. Last of all, if there was a conspiracy against the Targaryens (there wasn't), then bravo to them! I don't care about the good or bad deeds of the past Targaryens. You judge the dynasty by what they are now, not what they were then, and Aerys needed to be removed. Rhaegar might have been a good king, but when he fought to support his tyrannical father's evil legacy, he needed to be removed from power too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 On 1/27/2023 at 9:04 AM, KingEuronGreyjoy said: Deserved? Maybe from a legal perspective. It was pretty stupid to shout for the Crown Prince to “Come out and die!” But from a moral standpoint, no. He was pissed that 26 year old Rhaegar kidnapped his 16 year old sister. As far as I’m concerned if Brandon had actually ran into Rhaegar and gutted him in the throne room it’d be 100% morally justifiable. She was 15, maybe 14. Still a child even by Westerosi standards. Rhaegar is a creepy pedophile and likely a rapist like Aerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wadsworth Longfellow Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 11 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: She was 15, maybe 14. Still a child even by Westerosi standards. Rhaegar is a creepy pedophile and likely a rapist like Aerys. By your measure, many lords who were taking advantage of their rights to the first night are all pedophiles. The age of marriage is right around that range. So, not only are the brides not given a choice, they were very young. This right was held sacred in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 13 minutes ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said: By your measure, many lords who were taking advantage of their rights to the first night are all pedophiles. The age of marriage is right around that range. So, not only are the brides not given a choice, they were very young. This right was held sacred in the North. No it isn’t. You are lying to support your agenda. It’s highly illegal in the North and has been for generations. If Ned HS found out Roose had claimed it he would’ve personally beheaded Roose. Every other house in the north that is rumored to still practice it is just that. Rumored. Stop lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 On 1/18/2023 at 4:21 PM, KingEuronGreyjoy said: I agree. If Ned had been a monster or just rational and told Robert about Cersei, the Starks would probably be fine right now. If Robb hadn’t married Jeyne, there is a small chance Walder doesn’t betray him. If Catelyn handn’t let Jaime go, there is a good chance the RW wouldn’t happen. The problem with the Starks in ASOIAF, is that compared to the rest of Westerosi nobility, they are actually good people. Flawed but good. And that innate goodness is taken advantage of. When they return in TWoW and ADoS they’ll be merciless and cruel in some cases. And wreak bloody vengeance on those who wronged them. Ned had an inner moral compass. His children, Arya and Jon, are very far from moral. Arya's compass is gone. Lost forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Commentator said: Ned had an inner moral compass. His children, Arya and Jon, are very far from moral. Arya's compass is gone. Lost forever. What are you talking about? Jon is the most moral character left in the series! And Arya is not too far gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 On 1/21/2023 at 11:21 PM, The Lord of the Crossing said: Brandon enjoyed the hospitality of the dungeons for a time. Varys and his little birds squeezed all of the information out of him. Brandon told all. The plot to overthrow the Targaryens and the use of weddings to bond the conspirators together. The Starks and the Baratheons had their small victory while it lasted. Then they were served a dose of their own medicine. Stannis and Shireen are beggars at the wall. The Starks are either in the ground fertilizing the soil or are struggling. The Starks have had their long string of morons. Brandon and Jon are the two that readily come to mind. The only thing left for Rickard was a trial of combat. Only through that can the guilty hope to get away with the crime of treason. The king turned the tables on Rickard. Rickard and Brandon were not leaving the city alive. Brandon said enough to convince the king and his advisers of his family’s guilt. Executing them was the right thing though perhaps doing so by roasting was over the top. A simple beheading would have sufficed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 59 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said: Executing them was the right thing No it was not. Rickard was completely innocent. What Aerys did made a mockery of the sacred trial by combat. He used it as a vehicle to satisfy his perverse and cruel desires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.