Spare a Moment for H&M, Part 3

[Varysblackfyre321]

It's quite flabergasting people would take umbrage with harry and Megan(especially Megan) feeling peeved at having to give pics of their kids over to gossip mags to avoid harassment.

Out of all the things to criticize

Edited February 17, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321

[Cas Stark]

11 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

It's quite flabergasting people would take umbrage with harry and Megan(especially Megan) feeling peeved at having to give pics of their kids over to gossip mags to avoid harassment.

Out of all the things to criticize

No one is criticizing them for not wanting photos of their children taken.  I am criticizing Meghan for lying, and saying she lived in the UK she would be mobbed by reporters and paps every time she went to take the children to school, as this is patently false.  I further criticize them for complaining about the RF practice of releasing photos of children a few times a year on special events, when they do it themselves, the exact thing that his brother and cousins do is what they do.  No difference.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

When you want a change in status from your employer, whether it is a family business or not, it will involve negotiation.  That isn't a dirty word.  The world is full of family businesses where 'family' and 'business' are co mingled.  The rf isn't alone in this challenge.

But we can agree to disagree on H, and his family and who is the victim/victimizer. 

I'm somewhat less interested in the internal family dynamics because it really comes down to "he-said she-said". Whatever missteps the Sussexes may or may not have made, I think they were genuinely trying to make it work. I think there were others inside "The Firm" who felt likewise. But there were definitely those who weren't. The press leaks and tabloid spin demonstrate this.

The media phenomenon is far more interesting to me, though it's tough to separate them sometimes.

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Funny, how those who are comparing Harry's behavior with Lady G's, haven't noticed that she too, WAS NOT THERE FOR HER CHILDREN, and she too admits that much of their troubles and sad outcome is because of that.

That she's asked their permission (though at least one of them, and maybe 2 of them, cannot say, and were not in a situation to give permission -- i.e. funeral referenced above -- might well be doubted -- the Mail etc. better get cracking on this!~

I need to go back and read the article, but I don't have an opinion on the Lady G thing.

As far as the disparity in hostility to writing her memoir, that's relatively trivial. The negative bias in the English press toward Megan has been aptly demonstrated and it wasn't even a speed bump for these people.

What I can't stand is, "Royal Biographers" criticizing the Sussexes for the documentary and the memoir as, "trading on their name", when these same people literally wouldn't have a career otherwise. Does anyone think that ghouls like Angela Levin or Ingrid Seward would have said, "No" if they were asked to participate? Please.

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

No one is criticizing them for not wanting photos of their children taken.  I am criticizing Meghan for lying, and saying she lived in the UK she would be mobbed by reporters and paps every time she went to take the children to school, as this is patently false.  I further criticize them for complaining about the RF practice of releasing photos of children a few times a year on special events, when they do it themselves, the exact thing that his brother and cousins do is what they do.  No difference.

Given what happened after they announced the engagement and what Harry's gone through since childhood, Their concerns about press intrusion are more than well founded. 

And why does anyone think the press would show the same deference to the children of the Spare and his American wife that they would show the children of the future king? Especially when the Firm did little or nothing to quell hostile media coverage of them as a couple.

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Cas Stark]

33 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I'm somewhat less interested in the internal family dynamics because it really comes down to "he-said she-said". Whatever missteps the Sussexes may or may not have made, I think they were genuinely trying to make it work. I think there were others inside "The Firm" who felt likewise. But there were definitely those who weren't. The press leaks and tabloid spin demonstrate this.

The media phenomenon is far more interesting to me, though it's tough to separate them sometimes.

I need to go back and read the article, but I don't have an opinion on the Lady G thing.

As far as the disparity in hostility to writing her memoir, that's relatively trivial. The negative bias in the English press toward Megan has been aptly demonstrated and it wasn't even a speed bump for these people.

What I can't stand is, "Royal Biographers" criticizing the Sussexes for the documentary and the memoir as, "trading on their name", when these same people literally wouldn't have a career otherwise. Does anyone think that ghouls like Angela Levin or Ingrid Seward would have said, "No" if they were asked to participate? Please.

Given what happened after they announced the engagement and what Harry's gone through since childhood, Their concerns about press intrusion are more than well founded. 

Any why does anyone think the press would show the same deference to the children of the Spare and his American wife that they would show the children of the future king? Especially when the Firm did little or nothing to quell hostile media coverage of them as a couple.

 

I'll just put this out there.  Isn't it possible that while I'm sure a lot of people in the family and the palace rolled their eyes at Harry marrying a divorced B list actress who he had only dated long distance, that everyone saw the benefits and tried to make it work in the beginning?  Isn't it also possible that Meghan is a bit of a diva and that she rubbed people the wrong way, not because she's biracial, but because she's a very certain kind of American and a certain 'type' of personality?  Based on Harry's own account things between Meghan and Will/Kate got off to a rough start from the beginning.  If there are already huge dust-ups before the wedding, that frankly is not someone who is doing everything they can to make it work.  That is someone whose doing it 'her way'....which is fine, I guess but not the long term game I would have expected her to play.  Going to the mattresses over a tiara fitting and bridesmaids dresses and tights indicates someone who is doing in her way and no other way.

However, she got wonderful press almost universally for the first several months, from all the British media.  But,  then things from behind the scenes began to bubble out into the press.  Then the princes split their office/foundation which was obviously a sign of something not right.  Maybe, just maybe because she was let's say exacting/workaholic and didn't treat the staff at least as they were used to being treated this started the spiral.  People who are loyal and happy don't leak negative stories about you, but disgruntled overworked, possibly bullied people, yeah, they will do it.  They did do it.

It also appears that Meg and Harry set themselves an impossible task of managing the media by correcting/suing over every single story that was unflattering. They both admitted  to scrolling through comment sections, come on.  You can't do that at their level.  The palace correctly told them this was not good strategy or even healthy, but they didn't listen, and they took this, not for the good advice it was, but as an example of them not being supported.  

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

then things from behind the scenes began to bubble out into the press.

Hmmmm ... from where behind the scenes began this bubbling hmmmmm? which is where all this bs began.  It started within the palace.  That has been long determined.  Though what the palace let out has been not necessarily substantiated etc. etc. etc.

That you would even couch this garbage within the perimeters of -- just for starters -- calling out Meghan as a 'b lister' when no one was claiming she held a filmography on the level of Helen Mirren, for an example, speaks volumes about the haters.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

2 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Hmmmm ... from where behind the scenes began this bubbling hmmmmm?

Where indeed.

 

[Cas Stark]

6 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Hmmmm ... from where behind the scenes began this bubbling hmmmmm? which is where all this bs began.  It started within the palace.  That has been long determined.  Though what the palace let out has been not necessarily substantiated etc. etc. etc.

That you would even couch this garbage within the perimeters of -- just for starters -- calling out Meghan as a 'b lister' when no one was claiming she held a filmography on the level of Helen Mirren, for an example, speaks volumes about the haters.

Yeah, that's what I said.  Palace staffers who she didn't treat well were leaking was the speculation.  

Hmmm.  As I recall, almost every rumor has been substantiated by Harry himself:  Tiara issue, bridesmaid dress fiasco, no closeness with Kate, bullying accusations, lying about the birth, lying about cooperating with Finding Freedom authors, taking meetings with media companies months before they quit, and on and on it goes.

She was a B lister.  That is the truth.   Telling the truth shouldn't quality as being a 'hater' but I get it.  Many people only see her race and can't get beyond that to even pretend to consider any of her actions and how they have played into what happened.

  

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

No one is criticizing them for not wanting photos of their children taken

But you have dude.

Hence alluding to some hypocrisy if they didn't want to let a stranger taking pics of their kids to share, while they themselves taking pics of their kids and sharing them.

To you it's Same/same which is really disturbing.

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

am criticizing Meghan for lying, and saying she lived in the UK she would be mobbed by reporters and paps every time she went to take the children to school,

Not every time probably —so long as she caters to the blackmail.

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

 

5 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Hmmm.  As I recall, almost every rumor has been substantiated by Harry himself:  Tiara issue, bridesmaid dress fiasco, no closeness with Kate, bullying accusations, lying about the birth, lying about cooperating with Finding Freedom authors, taking meetings with media companies months before they quit, and on and on it goes.  

Tell me you haven't read the book without telling me you haven't read the book.

Seriously, are we still banging on about the fucking tiarra? Take the Queen's tiara collection and thow it into a goddamn woodchipper for all I care. Same for the bridemaids dresses and indeed the bridemades while you're at it. 

Also,

Have you never been a part of executing a wedding? It's fucking madness. The last time I had to do it I literally volunteered for a task that I knew would get me the fuck out of there for at least 2 hours*.

*Collecting the bridesmaids shoes from the retailer, two towns over, who had to dye them because someone thought they were the wrong fucking shade of purple.  

Edited February 18, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Cas Stark]

I brought it up to refute the idea that the various 'leaks' had not been substantiated.  That is false.  As I said, the vast majority of those negative rumors have been proven to be accurate.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I brought it up to refute the idea that the various 'leaks' had not been substantiated.  That is false.  As I said, the vast majority of those negative rumors have been proven to be accurate.

Bullshit, I'm familiar with the tiara story as it appeared in the press and how it appears in the book. What I know of the bridemaids dress story, it is similarly distorted to make Meghan look like some kind of monster. "Substantiated"?

[Cas Stark]

6 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Bullshit, I'm familiar with the tiara story as it appeared in the press and how it appears in the book. What I know of the bridemaids dress story, it is similarly distorted to make Meghan look like some kind of monster. "Substantiated"?

Harry recounts in the book the conflict with Angela Kelly over Meghan taking the tiara for a hairstyling, and that she told them they weren't following protocol for taking it.  This is fundamentally exactly the same story as was reported in the media.

[Wall Flower]

3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I'll just put this out there.  Isn't it possible that while I'm sure a lot of people in the family and the palace rolled their eyes at Harry marrying a divorced B list actress who he had only dated long distance, that everyone saw the benefits and tried to make it work in the beginning?  Isn't it also possible that Meghan is a bit of a diva and that she rubbed people the wrong way, not because she's biracial, but because she's a very certain kind of American and a certain 'type' of personality?  Based on Harry's own account things between Meghan and Will/Kate got off to a rough start from the beginning.  If there are already huge dust-ups before the wedding, that frankly is not someone who is doing everything they can to make it work.  That is someone whose doing it 'her way'....which is fine, I guess but not the long term game I would have expected her to play.  Going to the mattresses over a tiara fitting and bridesmaids dresses and tights indicates someone who is doing in her way and no other way.

However, she got wonderful press almost universally for the first several months, from all the British media.  But,  then things from behind the scenes began to bubble out into the press.  Then the princes split their office/foundation which was obviously a sign of something not right.  Maybe, just maybe because she was let's say exacting/workaholic and didn't treat the staff at least as they were used to being treated this started the spiral.  People who are loyal and happy don't leak negative stories about you, but disgruntled overworked, possibly bullied people, yeah, they will do it.  They did do it.

It also appears that Meg and Harry set themselves an impossible task of managing the media by correcting/suing over every single story that was unflattering. They both admitted  to scrolling through comment sections, come on.  You can't do that at their level.  The palace correctly told them this was not good strategy or even healthy, but they didn't listen, and they took this, not for the good advice it was, but as an example of them not being supported.  

You know it's not actually true that Meghan got universally wonderful press prior to and during the wedding, as a slightest amount of googling can confirm. It is, however, a convenient narrative framing for the press and online haters, as it puts the blame for their actions and behaviour onto Meghan herself.

Harry issued an official statement as early as Nov 16, well before the wedding which stated (in part):

'But the past week has seen a line crossed. His girlfriend, Meghan Markle, has been subject to a wave of abuse and harassment. Some of this has been very public - the smear on the front page of a national newspaper; the racial undertones of comment pieces; and the outright sexism and racism of social media trolls and web article comments. Some of it has been hidden from the public - the nightly legal battles to keep defamatory stories out of the papers; her mother having to struggle past photographers in order to get to her front door; the attempts of reporters and photographers to gain illegal entry to her home and the calls to police that followed; the substantial bribes offered by papers to her ex-boyfriend; the bombardment of nearly every friend, co-worker and loved one in her life.'

That doesn't even include the hiring of private investigators (involving dubious legality); the platforming of the half-sister who alternated between trashing Meghan and angling for an invite to the wedding; the relentless pursuit of the father who, while somewhat complicit, was no match for the feral press; culminating in the publication of private correspondence and leading to Meghan's lawsuit against the Mail owners.

[Zorral]

You know what else? Harry really did do and experience the stuff he writes about (which is all stuff his big bro the king to be who bullied him for that it seems more and more), even the stuff that everyone has loved to make fun of, who all of those making fun have never done any of the physical stuff Harry did, much less be an actual, you know, soldier - warrior (again which good ol bully Will hasn't been).

Prince Harry’s Icy Predicament Is a Pain Felt by Many Outdoor Athletes
Cold-weather athletes share their tales, advice, and trailside hacks about polar penis, a rarely-discussed—and yeah, really painful—ailment

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/snow-sports/polar-penis-prince-harry/

  Not to mention that all those jerkwaddies are obsessed with Harry's genitals and nobody gives a damn about Willie's willy. 

There just might be a problem there, doncha think, guys being guys, for Willie.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Zorral

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Fuck around and find out. It's amazing to me that any of these "royal experts" can still get on TV. And to be clear, they still get on TV to talk about the royals. I wonder how that lawsuit is going...

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Harry recounts in the book the conflict with Angela Kelly over Meghan taking the tiara for a hairstyling, and that she told them they weren't following protocol for taking it.  This is fundamentally exactly the same story as was reported in the media.

Once again, tell me you haven't read it without telling me you haven't read it. 

Here's an example of how it was reported at the time, though there are various versions of the story:

https://ca.style.yahoo.com/queen-biting-words-meghan-095607607.html

The way Harry tells it:

• His Aunts offered the Spencer family tiara for the wedding. The same one Diana wore
• The plan was to go with this and Meghan's veil was being designed to suit
• Later, they get a call from the Queen, offering to loan Meghan a tiara from her own collection. They agree. Harry doesn't speculate that the offer was made to prevent the Spencer tiara from appearing, as has been suggested by some.
• Palace; the Queens own dressing room; Meghan is presented  with five tiaras, each more beautiful than the last, blah, blah. She tries one on that everyone agrees is perfect. The Queen says She'll put it in the safe until they're ready to retrieve it, she suggests that Meghan should practice wearing it because tiaras can be tricky. The whole affair is very cordial and pleasant and Harry is very happy with how Meghan and Granny are getting on. Angela Kelly is present while this is happening.
• After a time, he contacts the palace to retrieve the tiara. Kelly tells him the protocol for taking it. He thinks it's a bit much but he agrees. She tells him it can't be done because she's "too busy". Harry is justifiably confused by this, given that she was in the room when the Queen consented to loan it. (In her defense, she may have actually been busy, but her priorities are kind of messed up) This resistance goes on for a time and causes some inconvenience vis a vis the wedding gown fabrication. 
• He is eventually able to get the tiara and he and Angela Kelly have some words. Angela wants to unload on him and his response is, "Now? Really?"

And that's it. No "biting words", no mention of Russian diamonds, no, "What Megan want's Meghan Gets!!!" and definitely no Harry getting high handed with the Queen. 

Anyone who believes that Prince Harry, the Queen's grandson and military veteran, would ever raise his voice to Grandma, Queen of United Kingdom, commander in chief of the British armed forces, is a fucking idiot. but that's the way these jackals reported it. It's not like he hasn't been part of this family for 35 years. 

And does anyone seriously think he'd say, "Fuck protocol, just give me the tiara!! Oh yeah, this irreplaceable $3 million dollar piece of jewelry; just toss it in the boot and I'll be on my way."

It sounds trivial, but this was one of many stories that fed into the early narrative of Meghan being "uppity". While this is going on, Samantha Markle is already making appearances as "Princess Pushy's sister".

Jesus fucking christ I know too much about these people. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

5 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Have you never been a part of executing a wedding? It's fucking madness.

Every single woman who’d cry in stress while planning their wedding need to be locked up in prison like the mad monster they are/s.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

On the topic of wedding dresses (something else I witnessed):

Princess Charlotte supposedly cried because her wedding dress fit like shit. In the insane wedding I described earlier, my sisters were bridesmaids. Like princess Charlotte, their measurements were taken and phoned-in to the dress makers. A seamstress was on-hand when they went to the dress store to try on their gowns. 

Guess what; their dresses fit like shit. The seamstress suggested that maybe the measurements were taken wrong. Not bloody likely. My mom took those measurments. Moms knows what she's doing. She's got boxes full of dresses she's sewn herself, for herself, over the years. She has likewise made clothes for my sisters for when they had to dress up for some fancy to-do. 

Sometimes the dress makers screw up. Sometimes peoples bodies change a little, especially if there's a long lead time between the measurements and the fitting. The seamstress even talked about not taking the dresses in too much because they want to be able to eat at the reception. It's easier to make adjustments if the thing is a little too big instead of too small. Making alterations the day before is totally normal.

But somehow the tabloids thought this was newsworthy. I don't know what to do with these people.  

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Heartofice]

2 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Once again, tell me you haven't read it without telling me you haven't read it. 

Here's an example of how it was reported at the time, though there are various versions of the story:

https://ca.style.yahoo.com/queen-biting-words-meghan-095607607.html

The way Harry tells it:

• His Aunts offered the Spencer family tiara for the wedding. The same one Diana wore
• The plan was to go with this and Meghan's veil was being designed to suit
• Later, they get a call from the Queen, offering to loan Meghan a tiara from her own collection. They agree. Harry doesn't speculate that the offer was made to prevent the Spencer tiara from appearing, as has been suggested by some.
• Palace; the Queens own dressing room; Meghan is presented  with five tiaras, each more beautiful than the last, blah, blah. She tries one on that everyone agrees is perfect. The Queen says She'll put it in the safe until they're ready to retrieve it, she suggests that Meghan should practice wearing it because tiaras can be tricky. The whole affair is very cordial and pleasant and Harry is very happy with how Meghan and Granny are getting on. Angela Kelly is present while this is happening.
• After a time, he contacts the palace to retrieve the tiara. Kelly tells him the protocol for taking it. He thinks it's a bit much but he agrees. She tells him it can't be done because she's "too busy". Harry is justifiably confused by this, given that she was in the room when the Queen consented to loan it. (In her defense, she may have actually been busy, but her priorities are kind of messed up) This resistance goes on for a time and causes some inconvenience vis a vis the wedding gown fabrication. 
• He is eventually able to get the tiara and he and Angela Kelly have some words. Angela wants to unload on him and his response is, "Now? Really?"

And that's it. No "biting words", no mention of Russian diamonds, no, "What Megan want's Meghan Gets!!!" and definitely no Harry getting high handed with the Queen. 

Anyone who believes that Prince Harry, the Queen's grandson and military veteran, would ever raise his voice to Grandma, Queen of United Kingdom, commander in chief of the British armed forces, is a fucking idiot. but that's the way these jackals reported it. It's not like he hasn't been part of this family for 35 years. 

And does anyone seriously think he'd say, "Fuck protocol, just give me the tiara!! Oh yeah, this irreplaceable $3 million dollar piece of jewelry; just toss it in the boot and I'll be on my way."

It sounds trivial, but this was one of many stories that fed into the early narrative of Meghan being "uppity". While this is going on, Samantha Markle is already making appearances as "Princess Pushy's sister".

Jesus fucking christ I know too much about these people. 

#BelieveAllMeghans

[Cas Stark]

9 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

[snipped]

And does anyone seriously think he'd say, "Fuck protocol, just give me the tiara!! Oh yeah, this irreplaceable $3 million dollar piece of jewelry; just toss it in the boot and I'll be on my way."

It sounds trivial, but this was one of many stories that fed into the early narrative of Meghan being "uppity". While this is going on, Samantha Markle is already making appearances as "Princess Pushy's sister".

Jesus fucking christ I know too much about these people. 

Yes, based on his own words and actions I absolutely believe he would say 'fuck protocol' he's been raging against protocol his entire life.  He has had minders and cleaners handling his BS his entire life, fixing things for him, enabling him, etc.   He has also shown himself to be a petty, jealous, disloyal person and despite what you want to think, I am sure his actions of the last years were very, very hurtful to his grandparents. 

Harry being a jerk to Angela Kelly is not any kind of story about Meghan being 'uppity', that is pure spin to inject race into a story where it has no legitimate bearing on things.   That spin is only there to paint anyone who doesn't buy into H&M's version of things as a 'hater' and a racist.

ETA...worth noting that it looks to me like Harry did a very poor job of helping Meghan adjust, putting her in bad situations, like failure to follow protocol over the tiara, hosting Will and Kate for the first time shoeless in ripped jeans.  These are pitfalls that Harry easily could have ensured Meghan avoided. He didn't.  He likes breaking protocol and shocking his family, he gets off on it.  

Edited February 18, 2023 by Cas Stark