Craving Peaches Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said: Slynt is third but he did not deserve to die. He deserved fairness from his lord commander and he did not get it. Jon's literal thoughts during the whole thing are made clear to those who have read the text. Janos got multiple chances and was only executed after he was repeatedly insubordinate, plotting with Ser Aliser and openly mocking the Lord Commander in front of his own men. All of the above threaten the stability of the Watch. Slynt had shown he wasn't willing to take commands, even if they benefited him, and was continuing to undermine the institution. Jon was right to execute him. Prince of the North, King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 and 3 others 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: Jon's literal thoughts during the whole thing are made clear to those who have read the text. Janos got multiple chances and was only executed after he was repeatedly insubordinate, plotting with Ser Aliser and openly mocking the Lord Commander in front of his own men. All of the above threaten the stability of the Watch. Slynt had shown he wasn't willing to take commands, even if they benefited him, and was continuing to undermine the institution. Jon was right to execute him. And let’s just acknowledge the fact that this has (and has had) to be patiently and comprehensively explained over and over and over again, and still this loud minority refuses to or is incapable of understanding something so simple that is literally spelled out by the author. It’s like Martin went out of his way to make it as clear as possible that the execution of Janos Slynt is not one of those grey areas that allow for many different interpretations. From the moment Slynt is introduced to the reader, it is clear this is a vile and corrupt man; and this is reinforced to the reader each and every time Slynt apprears - from his corruption, to being more than willing to murder babies and infants, to his plotting as soon as he arrives at CB, to his blatant and gross insubordination. And then the reader gets the added benefit of being in Jon’s head throughout, so that there can be no question about why he makes the decision he makes. Was Slynt someone Jon disliked and would like to be rid of? Of course, as would many others. But doing your duty and not hating it and even being glad of it are not mutually exclusive. The execution of Janos Slynt was 100% warranted, it’s a no-brainer. Therefore, the inability or unwillingness to accept this simple fact can only be blamed on a total and thorough incapacity to understand the text or utter intellectual dishonesty. sifth, Craving Peaches, Aejohn the Conqueroo and 7 others 8 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 2/19/2023 at 7:41 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: Those are examples of the Starks' failure to enforce and carry out justice. There is a lot of hypocrisy surrounding the Stark family and the further the story unfolds the worse they are starting to look. And the worse Daenerys may look as the story unfolds since "Dragons plant no trees." Craving Peaches 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 1/19/2023 at 6:32 PM, Craving Peaches said: Where are Moiraine Sedai, Bowen Marsh and Rondo? I would love to hear their thoughts on this. You just did Northern Sword and kissdbyfire 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said: You just did Unfortunately. Many-Faced Votary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Ned lost his own head. Robb lost his after removing Karstark’s. Jon Snow got poked many times. All the Starks who committed an injustice paid with their lives. Arya’s life will follow the same pattern. Gentlemen Prefer Blondes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 9 minutes ago, Darth Sidious said: Robb lost his after removing Karstark’s. Karstark was a murderer. The penalty for murder is death. So what Robb did cannot be called unjust.* 10 minutes ago, Darth Sidious said: Ned lost his own head. Gared was a deserter. The penalty for desertion is death. So what Ned did cannot be called unjust.* 11 minutes ago, Darth Sidious said: Jon Snow got poked many times Janos Slynt was guilty of insubordination in a military institution. The penalty for such is death. So what Jon did cannot be called unjust.* *By in-word standards. Northern Sword, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 and Many-Faced Votary 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 13 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Karstark was a murderer. The penalty for murder is death. So what Robb did cannot be called unjust.* Gared was a deserter. The penalty for desertion is death. So what Ned did cannot be called unjust.* Janos Slynt was guilty of insubordination in a military institution. The penalty for such is death. So what Jon did cannot be called unjust.* *By in-word standards. Exhausting, isn’t it? Jon is a crazy murderer, some think he’s a coward… but there’s always more to be taken from the text than we realise initially. “I use Longclaw when I must, ser.” “How well, though?” Ser Godry drew his own blade. “Show us. I promise not to hurt you, lad.” How kind of you. “Some other time, ser. I fear that I have other duties just now.” “You fear. I see that.” Ser Godry grinned at his friends. “He fears,” he repeated, for the slow ones.” Northern Sword, Aejohn the Conqueroo, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just now, kissdbyfire said: Jon is a crazy murderer, some think he’s a coward… but there’s always more to be taken from the text than we realise initially. I didn't know this, but if you read the relevant chapter, you can see that Jon didn't actually kill poor Janos Slynt to maintain the feudal class system and avenge his father, but because he was a criminal. I was really surprised! I thought Jon was just a rabid Stark psycho madly in love with his younger sister and a betrayer of humanity. Who would have thought that by reading the book you could see this wasn't true? LongRider, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9, Many-Faced Votary and 2 others 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Darth Sidious said: Ned lost his own head. Robb lost his after removing Karstark’s. Jon Snow got poked many times. All the Starks who committed an injustice paid with their lives. Arya’s life will follow the same pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbrey Dustin Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Gared was suffering from the trauma of what he saw on the other side of the wall. Eddard did a bad thing. He executed a man who was no longer in control. Janos deserved another chance just as Mormont gave Jon chances. Jon was a deserter and a troublemaker but Mormont gave him breaks. Jon should have given mercy to Janos. The worst of the killings has to be Dareon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 31 minutes ago, Barbrey Dustin said: Eddard did a bad thing. He executed a man who was no longer in control Sorry but there is no obligation in Westeros to let people go because they're 'not in control.' You desert, you die. The law is simple. There are no criminal defences here. 32 minutes ago, Barbrey Dustin said: Janos deserved another chance just as Mormont gave Jon chances Janos got multiple chances. 32 minutes ago, Barbrey Dustin said: Jon was a deserter No he wasn't. It specifically points out in the text that he wasn't. 33 minutes ago, Barbrey Dustin said: troublemaker but Mormont gave him breaks. What breaks? Jon got punished for breaking the rules. 33 minutes ago, Barbrey Dustin said: Jon should have given mercy to Janos Janos got multiple chances and he spat them back in Jon's face. He bit the hand that fed him due to his arrogance and spite. Terrorthatflapsinthenight9, King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd, Many-Faced Votary and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 16 hours ago, Barbrey Dustin said: Gared was suffering from the trauma of what he saw on the other side of the wall. Eddard did a bad thing. He executed a man who was no longer in control. So did Daenerys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Gared was trying to find Dany, that's why he ran. It is known. Many-Faced Votary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) On 2/17/2023 at 1:03 AM, Craving Peaches said: Yeah. Dareon is, depending on how you look at him, not very sympathetic, but it was still murder. I made a thread about it and was surprised by how many people were coming up with stuff to try and justify it or claim it wasn't murder. Yes. In the books love is the death of duty; for the readers affinity is the death of moral objectivity. I truly do wonder if that’s not one of George’s intended meta-textual points. Edited February 23 by James Arryn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 minutes ago, LongRider said: Gared was trying to find Dany, that's why he ran. It is known. How did he get so far past the Wall that the North caught him instead of the Night's Watch? Jon gets chased after by Sam, Grenn, and Pyp and caught after a few hours. It takes months to find Gared, and he a) had more ground to cover and b) had limited points to cross over the Wall where he would have been found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 hint: The Black Gate Many-Faced Votary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 44 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: How did he get so far past the Wall that the North caught him instead of the Night's Watch? Jon gets chased after by Sam, Grenn, and Pyp and caught after a few hours. It takes months to find Gared, and he a) had more ground to cover and b) had limited points to cross over the Wall where he would have been found. Nobody knew he was gone. Hence no search. 45 minutes ago, LongRider said: hint: The Black Gate Not sure how widely known it is. Sam is the only one to use it in the story so far. My guess would be the Bridge of Skulls. Many-Faced Votary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 minute ago, Nevets said: Nobody knew he was gone. Hence no search. Not sure how widely known it is. Sam is the only one to use it in the story so far. My guess would be the Bridge of Skulls. Sam and Cold Hands both know. Gared was a ranger for forty years, I'm sure he knew. Many-Faced Votary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, LongRider said: Sam and Cold Hands both know. Gared was a ranger for forty years, I'm sure he knew. Wouldn’t it depend on where he was when he got near the wall? It’s pretty long, a starving, running fugitive is more likely living cover-to-cover, food source to food source and then getting across whichever of the Wildling routes is nearest. Eastwatch would have been the easiest if just crossing was his only aim; it could have provided a lot of options, though obvious risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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