Angel Eyes Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 By marrying Lysa to Jon Arryn, Lord of the Vale, Warden of the East, he put her in proximity to Littlefinger, a man who Hoster knew was a bad influence on her. Surely there were other options around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Surely there were other options around. Where? Who? Jaime Lannister was off the market, Doran Martell was already married, the Tyrell boys were too young, the Greyjoys were the Greyjoys, Robert was promised to Lyanna, Stannis was only a second son, and Eddard was marrying Catelyn. By marrying Jon Arryn, she not only becomes the Lady of the Vale, she also becomes the mother to the next Lord Arryn. It's the exact sort of marriage that the nobles in Westeros would crave most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 3 hours ago, James Steller said: Where? Who? Jaime Lannister was off the market, Doran Martell was already married, the Tyrell boys were too young, the Greyjoys were the Greyjoys, Robert was promised to Lyanna, Stannis was only a second son, and Eddard was marrying Catelyn. By marrying Jon Arryn, she not only becomes the Lady of the Vale, she also becomes the mother to the next Lord Arryn. It's the exact sort of marriage that the nobles in Westeros would crave most. This If hoster is jumping feet first into the 'rebel alliance' hes getting properly wedded to it,literaly. He is tied by marriage now to the vale and thr north. If robert is killed and stormlamds smashed the other 2 with their semi impregnable.regions cant just run off and leave the very invadable.riverlands to its fate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Because Lysa was "soiled"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 14 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: By marrying Lysa to Jon Arryn, Lord of the Vale, Warden of the East, he put her in proximity to Littlefinger, a man who Hoster knew was a bad influence on her. Surely there were other options around. Littlefinger was a nobody at the time, and Jon would have no reason to let his wife's former lover into his inner circle. So there was no reason to think he would worm his way back to Lysa. Even when he got his minor sinecure, he was in Gulltown while Lysa and Jon were in King's Landing. And by the time he was brought to King's Landing, he had proven himself as a man of talent, and their teenage affair was ancient history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Catelyn already answered this: "Lysa was the price Jon Arryn had to pay for the swords and spears of House Tully." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 4 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said: Catelyn already answered this: "Lysa was the price Jon Arryn had to pay for the swords and spears of House Tully." Wasn't Ned marrying Catelyn already part of that price? 6 hours ago, John Suburbs said: Littlefinger was a nobody at the time, and Jon would have no reason to let his wife's former lover into his inner circle. So there was no reason to think he would worm his way back to Lysa. Even when he got his minor sinecure, he was in Gulltown while Lysa and Jon were in King's Landing. And by the time he was brought to King's Landing, he had proven himself as a man of talent, and their teenage affair was ancient history. Littlefinger's spent his life with the ideal of the plucky underdog using his wits to win; if there's anyone who could worm his way back it's him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 On 1/20/2023 at 6:31 PM, Angel Eyes said: Wasn't Ned marrying Catelyn already part of that price?. Yes and no. Catelyn was betrothed to Brandon, who died with his father. Based on what we've seen in world with the "next heir up" mantra, it would be expected for Ned to step into that role and everything that comes with it. Tion Lannister and Tommen were both married to their older brother's betrothed. There are probably other examples that are escaping my feeble mind. On the other hand, Hoster absolutely would have been well within his rights to terminate the agreement or reject any replacement given what Brandon and his father "did." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 On 1/20/2023 at 6:31 PM, Angel Eyes said: Littlefinger's spent his life with the ideal of the plucky underdog using his wits to win; if there's anyone who could worm his way back it's him. That's Petyr's history in hindsight. At the time, he was a nobody, plucky or otherwise. He wouldn't even show up in Gulltown for another six years. As far as Hoster is concerned, Petyr is done and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said: On the other hand, Hoster absolutely would have been well within his rights to terminate the agreement or reject any replacement given what Brandon and his father "did." In that case, why didn't Hoster terminate the agreement? As you say he was well within his rights to break everything off, seek mercy, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 21 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: In that case, why didn't Hoster terminate the agreement? As you say he was well within his rights to break everything off, seek mercy, etc. Because he wanted to become one of the most powerful people in the world. He was well within his rights, this is how the marriage of his granddaughter gets broken up, Quote The High Septon stepped forward. "Your Grace, the gods hold bethrothal solemn, but your father, King Robert of blessed memory, made this pact before the Starks of Winterfell had revealed their falseness. Their crimes against the realm have freed you from any promise you might have made. So far as the Faith is concerned, there is no valid marriage contract 'twixt you and Sansa Stark." But Hoster weighed his future and it came out to exactly what Cat and Lysa weighed, to the ounce. So he shipped them off to the local rebellious warlords and died a powerful heartbroken man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 27 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: In that case, why didn't Hoster terminate the agreement? As you say he was well within his rights to break everything off, seek mercy, etc. He just saw his future SIL and a peer lord paramount brutally murdered by a tyrant, not to mention a dozen others, for little to no reason. Tywin was holding out and the rebels had already won some victories. Why not roll the dice on the guys who already have multiple armies in your part of the realm and wouldn't kill you for a perceived slight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 On 1/20/2023 at 6:24 AM, James Steller said: Doran Martell was already married By the way, it doesn't seem to be common knowledge in Westeros that Doran and Mellario are separated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: By the way, it doesn't seem to be common knowledge in Westeros that Doran and Mellario are separated. When did they separate, though? They might have still been together during Robert's Rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, James Steller said: When did they separate, though? They might have still been together during Robert's Rebellion. After 287 AC since Trystane is a boy of 13 in AFFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wadsworth Longfellow Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Hoster had a head too big for his trousers. Nothing would do but a High Lord and who is higher but an Arryn of the Eyrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 27 minutes ago, James Steller said: When did they separate, though? They might have still been together during Robert's Rebellion. It was still before the start of the series. Meanwhile, it's mentioned in ASOS that Doran can't be a potential husband for Cersei because he is married to Mellario, who is younger than him and is likely to outlive him. I know that Doran and Mellario's separation probably wasn't established yet at that point, but in-universe it looks a bit off, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 12 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: It was still before the start of the series. Meanwhile, it's mentioned in ASOS that Doran can't be a potential husband for Cersei because he is married to Mellario, who is younger than him and is likely to outlive him. I know that Doran and Mellario's separation probably wasn't established yet at that point, but in-universe it looks a bit off, IMHO. Doran as Prince of Dorne could have easily arranged his marriage dissolved, a divorce, setting aside his prior wife. Doran does not seem to have done so. Mellario packed up and left, returning to Norvos. Separated, but not divorced. By "law" she is still his wife and Doran still married. He wants it that way I think. Mellario too most likely. It's not unlike Viserys II and his wife Rogare, who also packed up and left back for Lys. For years he was Hand and even king shortly. Obviously Viserys II and Lara Rogare were separated, but again still married, because that's how they liked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Jon Arryn came to Hoster looking for support in the rebellion, and he would only agree on the condition that Jon marry Lysa first, thus making her the lady of the Vale. He sold Jon on it by revealing Lysa’s previous pregnancy, because Jon had no heir of his own and would want a fertile wife to produce one. Catelyn thinks this was a mistake, however, because it likely made Jon think less of Lysa. Hoster seems to have justified the forced abortion by making Lysa such an advantageous marriage, which he assumed would produce many children. Lysa’s string of miscarriages is likely what caused him so much guilt, since Lysa now had no children and even more heartache. That said, I’m not sure that the moontea is what caused Lysa’s fertility problems. If Sweetrobin is Littlefinger’s child (which is a genuine possibility), then Jon was the problem, not Lysa. But even still, that would mean that Hoster inadvertently married her to an infertile man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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