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Will Bran commit the third abomination?


Maegor_the_Cool

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14 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

What studies?

It was something I read online somewhere (sorry, I know that's not particularly reliable or helpful). The only ones I have found after a quick search talk about it being addictive with regards to people who are actively looking to eat human flesh, not people who eat it in an emergency. I will get back if I find the links.

 I have also edited my original comment. I hope it makes my tone more clear. Apologies for any confusion I caused.

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1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said:

It was something I read online somewhere (sorry, I know that's not particularly reliable or helpful). The only ones I have found after a quick search talk about it being addictive with regards to people who are actively looking to eat human flesh, not people who eat it in an emergency. I will get back if I find the links.

I did a quick search as well and found nothing scientific. Peope who crave human flesh and/or blood etc need a psychiatrist and meds so it doesn't really count. This sounds a bit like vaccines will make your eyeballs grow hair or turn you into a giant magnet, that type of thing. Considering how easily people get addicted I would expect cannibalism to be an actual issue if this really tracked. :dunno:

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20 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

It was something I read online somewhere (sorry, I know that's not particularly reliable or helpful). The only ones I have found after a quick search talk about it being addictive with regards to people who are actively looking to eat human flesh, not people who eat it in an emergency. I will get back if I find the links.

 I have also edited my original comment. I hope it makes my tone more clear. Apologies for any confusion I caused.

No apologies necessary, I was just curious whether you were joking or not. 

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I wanted to jump in so many times over the past pages!  I'm right there with you @StarkTullies.  Who is Haggon to decide what's what?  Shouldn't skin changing rules come from whichever clan started up the skin changers?  I always reckoned that was the Red Kings because we aren't told who the skin changers were originally nor what the Red Kings did so...no, not Haggon.  Societies evolve and we see in these Stark kids that the magical gifts evolve.  We see right from Bran's perspective how Bran's powers work.  He takes nourishment in Summer, he takes nourishment as a starving boy.  Neither reads like abomination unless you are looking for abomination.  In the minority, I don't think Bran's got control of his nifty new cave found powers of greenseeing combined with warging and skin changing.  This is big power for a very little boy who gets tired and carried away in the moments with his visions.

As has been made by more articulate than me above, you would have to be a real stickler for the letter of the law to find real guilt in Bran's abominations.  Big deal.  He is a little boy.  Shoot that horse already.  As a little boy that 3rd abomination will amount to Summer humping Meera's leg.  Bad boy. 

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2 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

As has been made by more articulate than me above, you would have to be a real stickler for the letter of the law to find real guilt in Bran's abominations.

Bran can just argue it was necessary that he eat the human meat anyway because he would have starved otherwise. Not that he'd be tried anyway (at least where I live) as he's a nine year old boy.

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Bran is an abomination.  He, Jon, Arya, and Rickon will die and become Direwolves.  The Jon-Arya romance will happen.  The Snow Man and the Corpse Queen will mate and rule the wall for 13 years.  Bran and Rickon are cannibals already.  They will all become Direwolves before the end of the story and live as pack of wolves in the North.  There will be mating going on.  Jon and Arya in their semi-living human forms at first.  You can still find a copy of George R. R. Martin's plot outline in a letter to his publisher.  A romantic relation between Arya and Jon were always going to take place.  Gendry replaced Tyrion in the triangle.  Those human social boundaries will no longer matter when they become Direwolves though.  Which I do not hold against them.  After all, people who can die and live as wolves have their own Doctrine of Exceptionalism.  

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1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

That sound llike compartmentalizing it: if I make the arc tiny and particular enough then my rule eventually will apply. But it always fits in a broader arc, and a huge multi character POV story. Otherwise there's little to no point to tackling a moral dilemma in the first place.

It seems like you're still assuming the least generous interpretation of what I am saying. Do I really need to qualify every single detail? 

I am not trying to pretend that GRRM is taking some modular plug & play approach to story arcs. He's a gardener, and some arcs might be rather messily handled. The pieces won't all be perfectly isolated, and some details will be up to debate.

In addition, I concede that part of the purpose and fun of having so many characters in the series is that they can serve as foils for one another, and readers can start to infer some themes that emerge across different character arcs. So it's certainly relevant to think about Varamyr's arc in relation to Bran's.

I will also concede the point about warging non-human animals...except my main point that it's not so relevant to Bran's arc. Bran started out warging Summer. For whatever reason, Summer and Bran have a readymade bond, the closest "supernatural" gets to natural. So his progression in warging goes from not knowing what's going on and feeling shame, to mastering his ability and accepting his identity as a skinchanger. The issue of jumping into other animals might get more relevant now that he's training his greenseer powers, but that would be something for future books to make clearer.

What he does when in Summer's body is certainly going to factor into Bran's larger arc: how he uses his rather savage power, the human/animal divide for the morality of actions (including eating human flesh), and the temptation to use his power to escape the reality of his physical disability. But at the same time, the issue that I brought up of warging Hodor seems pretty neatly written up by GRRM. I can't say for sure, but it does appear to me to be pretty well planned out. Not unlike Stannis and the theme of sacrifice/ one innocent life against a kingdom.

If you disagree with any of this, that's okay. I just don't know what your motive is here in trying to get me to iron out all of the particulars here.

It sounds like we generally agree on what the moral tone is, and at least the broad trajectory. Why sweat the small stuff?

 

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Isn't that exactly what he is doing in this instance? There's no real moral dilema in what Varamyr tries to do with Thistle, it's abominable and not something the reader is left pondering on at all. Then we have Bran instinctively skinchanging into Hodor in situations of extreme danger, and danger not only to himself but his friends and their mission. We know what Haggon told Varamyr, and we saw what Varamyr tried to do, and so the reader understands (for the most part) but still feels some uncomfort. Just in these two cases we can already see that the moral dilema that was basically absent in Varamyr's case is rearing its head now. And when Bran skinchanges into Hodor when they're in the cave the moral questioning increases again, and markedly so. So yeah, I don't think Martin is making it easier for the reader, just the opposite in fact.

It sounds like we agree here, so maybe I misinterpreted what you had said in the first place.

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6 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

It sounds like we agree here, so maybe I misinterpreted what you had said in the first place.

Cool! And please, no one is warging any being other than a wolf or a dog. :)

 

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3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Cool! And please, no one is warging any being other than a wolf or a dog. :)

 

Gads I am glad you typed warging.  Someone said it was only warg.  Period.  You cannot verb it.  I love you.  I missed you.  

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17 minutes ago, Rondo said:

Bran is an abomination.  He, Jon, Arya, and Rickon will die and become Direwolves.  The Jon-Arya romance will happen.  The Snow Man and the Corpse Queen will mate and rule the wall for 13 years.  Bran and Rickon are cannibals already.  They will all become Direwolves before the end of the story and live as pack of wolves in the North.  There will be mating going on.  Jon and Arya in their semi-living human forms at first.  You can still find a copy of George R. R. Martin's plot outline in a letter to his publisher.  A romantic relation between Arya and Jon were always going to take place.  Gendry replaced Tyrion in the triangle.  Those human social boundaries will no longer matter when they become Direwolves though.  Which I do not hold against them.  After all, people who can die and live as wolves have their own Doctrine of Exceptionalism.  

Rondo, I really missed you. Please don't go away again. I don't want to see Rosetta Stone's or Darth Sideous' or Finley McLeod's or Damsel in Distress' or James West's or The Lord of the Crossing's or James Fenimore Cooper XXII's or anyone else's comments on how bad the Starks are anymore. Only yours.

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3 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Gads I am glad you typed warging.  Someone said it was only warg.  Period.  You cannot verb it.  I love you.  I missed you.  

Missed you too, Curled, glad to see you about again! :cheers:

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13 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

GRRM pronounces Dothraki as "Doth-Rock-eye," and so I will say warg all I please. :D

I have never heard Martin pronounce Dothraki like that, and I’ve heard him say the word lots of times. The other thing is, how one pronounces something is altogether different from using the wrong noun/verb/adjective deliberately, which seems like an odd choice… But hey, to each their own.

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Just now, kissdbyfire said:

I have never heard Martin pronounce Dothraki like that, and I’ve heard him say the word lots of times. The other thing is, how one pronounces something is altogether different from using the wrong noun/verb/adjective deliberately, which sounds… odd. But hey, to each their own.

Maybe he changes it up? Which is also weird. This was a pronunciation that I would love to un-hear, but I cannot.

My use of warging was purely due to laziness/efficiency when typing, but also because I find it kind of weird to be persnickety about fantasy terms when we all know what we're talking about!

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