Craving Peaches Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: I think there’s a level of denial there, and also of genuinely not understanding exactly how it all happened. It would be great to get definitive & reliable answers to these questions, but I’m not holding my breath… There's some things I want answers to, but there are other things where I don't mind leaving the mystery intact, such as what happened at Hardhome and what caused the Doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Favorites POVs: Brienne, Catelyn, Davos Least Favorites: Areo, Victarion, and Arys Oakheart. Since Arys only has the one chapter, I guess I will also name Samwell, at least in aggregate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 32 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: I don’t remember specific dialogue from before Renly’s death b/c it’s been forever since I reread the books. But from [possibly faulty] memory, I’m not sure he knew Renly would die. But I don’t think he knew what exactly would happen or how active a part he would play. I do also wholeheartedly believe the whole shadow birthing process had Selyse’s blessings. He dreamed it. So, he himself was asleep at the time. He does not seem aware of the particulars or how it was accomplished. But he's complicit insofar he allowed Mel to do what was necessary. Though I do think Mel knew enough to inform Stannis in detail - she probably said that Renly would die that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: He dreamed it. So, he himself was asleep at the time. He does not seem aware of the particulars or how it was accomplished. But he's complicit insofar he allowed Mel to do what was necessary. Though I do think Mel knew enough to inform Stannis in detail - she probably said that Renly would die that night. Yeah, that’s in the text, sort of. Even when he talks about it w/ Davos and tells him to ask Devan etc. Just to make myself clearer than before, I don’t think he knew beforehand that his shagging Mel would result in a shadowbaby that would kill his brother. All things she could have told him and didn’t imo. And afterwards he puts 2 + 2 together but still doesn’t fully comprehend how the process really works. ETA: and during his convo w/ Davos after Renly is killed, I sense denial and guilt in him, and still the not fully grasping the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said: I don’t think he knew beforehand that his shagging Mel would result in a shadowbaby that would kill his brother. I'm not sure whether he knew that either, but I do think he would have realised that if he sailed to Dragonstone Renly would die. In Cressen's chapter Selyse hints to Stannis that the way to get Renly's army is to kill him, and that Melisandre has predicted he would die. Quote "Yes," she answered, "but if Renly should die . . ." Quote "Melisandre has gazed into the flames, and seen him dead." Cressen was horrorstruck. "Fratricide . . . my lord, this is evil, unthinkable . . . please, listen to me." And after the deed is done Stannis and Davos have this discussion. Quote "...Melisandre told me that if I went to Storm's End, I would win the best part of my brother's power, and she was right." "B-but," Davos stammered, "Lord Renly only came here because you had laid siege to the castle. He was marching toward King's Landing before, against the Lannisters, he would have—" So it seems quite clear to me that sailing to Storm's End to win the army and Renly dying are linked. To be fair, it is not outright said that they would have to kill Renly to get it, and theoretically Stannis could have thought his brother would just happen to die without his intervention, but I find that unlikely, because during Cressen's POV chapter Stannis says this: Quote "My brother is young and strong, and he has a vast host around him, and these rainbow knights of his." Looks like Stannis doesn't rate Renly's chances of dying of natural causes very highly, and he also notes how well protected he is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 31 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: Curiously enough, I consider Tyrion's POV in aDwD actually the best of his POVs in all the published books so far. I know it's actually the darkest POVs, but at least he seems to be honest about that darkness to himself more than in the prior books. Less excuses. True, it's more his external journey that I'm less interested in. His internal one is fascinating, I wouldn't call it bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, James Steller said: True, it's more his external journey that I'm less interested in. His internal one is fascinating, I wouldn't call it bad at all. I agree on the Theon chapters for aDwD though... I can't stand his POV until aDwD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkTullies Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I figured I'd just rank all of them. My order of character likability, not in order of reading enjoyability: Jon Snow Eddard Stark Brienne Tarth Samwell Tarly Bran Stark Sansa Stark Quentyn Martell Catelyn Stark Davos Seaworth Arya Stark Arys Oakheart Asha Greyjoy Barristan Selmy Melisandre Arianne Martell Areo Hotah Aeron Greyjoy Jaime Lannister Theon Greyjoy Jon Connington Daenerys Targaryen Tyrion Lannister Victarion Greyjoy Cersei Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Eh, for me it’s more horses for courses, ie different POVs for different flavours. And there’s also favourite POV chapters, or favourite characters who are POVs? For example Cat’s chapters are pretty routinely amongst the most powerful, well crafted, informative and important to the story, but though I like Cat, she is nowhere near my favourite characters. And how to rank the comedic aspects of Cersei’s oblivious megalomania? So I’ll answer the easiest way; my favourite characters who are POVs. 1) Jaime 2) Tyrion (weirdly not a Lannister fan despite 1 and 2) 3) Davos! How could I forget Davos? Next: Massive cheating: Ned, Brienne, Jon, Daenerys, JonConn…should be Adam, but aside from arguably the most moving line in the series, Sam’s chapters can get a bit meh…Arya early on competed for top spot, but her descent into child soldier/assassin has been maybe the saddest reading experience for me in the series, alongside Ned’s death/RW and Tyrion. Note Tyrion still makes it, but before he killed Shae and went on his self-pity tour of Essos, Tyrion was alone on top. Worse still, his treatment of Shae made me pay more attention to seriously ~ evil behaviour earlier on in the books that I had unconsciously given him a pass for. GRRM’s best boiled frog, imo, and if I had to guess he’ll continue falling as the series progresses…caveat to GRRMs pre/prologues, which often produce remarkably realized characters in a very short time, so if we tallied it up as one it’d be up there. Well, Sixskin felt a bit like an info dump, but that aside. edit, forgot least. (Sick twins card). 1) Aeron. My God. Although Forsaken is more powerful, it’s also more written as horror, which genre GRRM loves and I do not. Cool name though. 2) Areo/Arianne/Aerys: God what a let down after Oberyn. 3) Victarion. Not as bad as Aeron, with more humour but same type/lesser version of Cersei’s running joke. Not bad, though, he has several moments I like, but, I mean, I love the series, not gonna be overflowing with chapters I don’t enjoy. Just occurred to me that Arya and Sansa are on opposite trajectories for me; originally Arya was often my favourite POV, but over time they just got sadder and more disturbing. Sansa conversely was very unsympathetic and, er, not overly bright in many ways (though she had strengths in other ways, could be emotionally perceptive as Cat can be. Like with Cat this is far from infallible, and to Sansa’s credit she doesn’t seem to think it is as Cat does. But to get back to the point Sansa’s chapters, while often highly informative, sometimes the most informative, they weren’t terribly sympathetic, nor was Sansa especially interesting. But they have gotten increasingly interesting, whereas Sansa…has not gotten more interesting, but rather has interestingly gotten more and more indistinct, as though she is keeping her self so tightly under control that not even the reader is allowed to see in. That’s been some nice, subtle writing we’ve been seeing in Sansa’s chapters, though in terms of being informative the move to the Vale has reduced that scope, but still giving us a look inside the Vale we don’t really get during Tyrion/Cat’s sojourn, when it was merely used as architectural backdrop to their plights and ploys without really caring much about how the Vale works beyond the stations of the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, StarkTullies said: I figured I'd just rank all of them. My order of character likability, not in order of reading enjoyability. I like the thoroughness! Likability: Eddard Sansa Davos Samwell Bran Jon Snow Brienne Arya Catelyn Daenerys Quentyn Areo Hotah Maester Cressen Barristan Arys Oakheart Will Arianne Tyrion Asha Melisandre Jaime Jon Connington Theon Pate Aeron Victarion Kevan Lannister Cersei Merrett Frey Chett Varamyr Reading Enjoyability: Brienne Catelyn Davos Tyrion Bran Arya Eddard Sansa Theon Jaime Maester Cressen Daenerys Jon Snow Varamyr Cersei Quentyn Aeron Chett Melisandre Jon Connington Asha Barristan Arianne Kevan Lannister Samwell Merrett Frey Will Victarion Arys Oakheart Pate Aero Hotah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Princling Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Favorite POV's: 1) Cersei 2) Sansa 3) Aeron Ones that I also really enjoy, but who did not make it to top 3: Bran, Catelyn and Victarion. Hard to choose the least favorite POV, because I honestly enjoy them all. 1) Areo Hotah (I think his Norvoshi backround has not been explored enough so far) 2) Arys Oakheart (if nothing comes out of his chapter it's a bit of a waste) 3) Tyrion after Storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James West Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Top 3 Favorite Daenerys Targaryen Barristan Selmy Tyrion Lannister Very Bottom 3 Jon Snow Arya Stark Bran Stark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisenyaTargaryen Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Favorites: Jaime, Dany, Cersei. Least favorite: Aeron, Victarion, Davos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Defining favourites as in I look forward to reading their chapters and least favourites as I tend to groan when I'm confronted with their chapters. Does not reflect opinion on the character exactly. Favourites: Tyrion, Jon and Dany Least Favourites: Brienne, Sansa, Bran* *until they get beyond the Wall, then I perked up a bit with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkTullies Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I ranked POVs by likability earlier. Ranking by favorite chapters is harder, since it varies by book. So below is my top 3 most interesting POV chapters per book. Don't really have a least favorite list. A Game of Thrones Eddard Stark Daenerys Targaryen Catelyn Stark A Clash of Kings Tyrion Lannister Arya Stark Theon Greyjoy A Storm of Swords Catelyn Stark Jon Snow Tyrion Lannister A Feast for Crows Cersei Lannister Brienne Tarth Jaime Lannister A Dance with Dragons Theon Greyjoy Jon Snow Daenerys Targaryen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 My favorites are Daenerys, Brienne, and Barristan. The three which I don’t like are Jon Snow, Arya Stark, and Sansa Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Moiraine Sedai said: The three which I don’t like are Jon Snow, Arya Stark, and Sansa Stark. Moiraine, do you know when Rondo's new post on Bran is coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Top 3 POVs: 1. Bran 2. Sansa 3. Brienne (Honorable mention, Aeron Damphair) Bottom 3 POVs 1. Barristan Selmy 2. Reek (only because the Reek scenes kinda gross me out, ngl) 3. I think that's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sword Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Faves 1 Jon, 2 Jaime, 3 Arya Least 1 Cersei, 2 Cersei, 3 Catelyn Honourable Mention 1 Tyrion, 2 Dany Most Improved 1 Sansa, 2 Victorian 3 Theon Most anticipated in the next book (I Hope)- The Marwyn The Mage and The Gravedigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wadsworth Longfellow Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Mine may be obvious from my past comments. Faves: Daenerys, Tyrion, and Barristan. Tyrion has grown on me since he left Westeros. Bottom three: Arya, Jaime, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.