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NFL next- The Superb Owl you hate


DireWolfSpirit
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16 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Curious what the asking price for Lamar would be given Watson command three firsts and Lamar is better without all the off field issues. 

Not convinced Lamar is better than Watson going forward. Lamar is probably peaked and platue-ing at this point, while Watson (scumbag that he is) is likely to be rising, performance wise.

I never want to be the guy paying for your past laurels, Rodgers, Lamar, im letting someone else pay those guys.

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1 hour ago, Nictarion said:

Man said “if” :lmao:

Yeah.  Teams might fuck around with quarterbacks that have real downside like Cousins or even Jackson.  Absolutely nobody is letting Burrow walk out the door.  He's probably the second best quarterback in the league and he's only 26.  At this point you could make a fair argument that if Burrow "only" wins 1 ring in the next decade that would be a disappointment. 

If some team were to offer the 6 first round picks for him, the Bengals would still hang up the phone. 

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4 hours ago, briantw said:

Well then it seems like a smart bit of gamesmanship from a cash rich owner in a division that had two other QBs on rookie deals.  

Sure, if you want to look at it this way. Thing is, other QBs are more reasonable whereas Lamar is his own agent and is not. And I would not pay a fully guaranteed contract for 6-7 years to a running QB just coming off an ACL. Just would not do it.

Also, the issue with fully guaranteed contracts (beyond the need to put all that cash into escrow which just isn't feasible for family run teams) is that it will extend into other contracts. Soon mediocre QBs like Daniel Jones will be demanding fully guaranteed contracts. Then you'll get DEs, WRs, OLs and so on. And the thing is, the game is so violent, the deterioration of play so quick that some teams will be destroyed on these contracts. Imagine giving Russell Wilson a full guaranteed contract on the back end of the few great seasons he had in Seattle? Good lord.

1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

Yeah.  Teams might fuck around with quarterbacks that have real downside like Cousins or even Jackson.  Absolutely nobody is letting Burrow walk out the door.  He's probably the second best quarterback in the league and he's only 26.  At this point you could make a fair argument that if Burrow "only" wins 1 ring in the next decade that would be a disappointment. 

If some team were to offer the 6 first round picks for him, the Bengals would still hang up the phone. 

Exactly. Bengals will not let him go. This is 100% fact.

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3 hours ago, Nictarion said:

Man said “if” :lmao:

I already said that I fully expect the Bengals to keep Burrow.  I also expect it to cost them several other starters.  Jessie Bates, for example, is already as good as gone, and for all the Bengals’ assurances to the contrary, it wouldn’t shock me if they end up losing Higgins too.  And even if they don’t, paying both Higgins and Chase will mean cuts elsewhere. 

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19 minutes ago, briantw said:

I already said that I fully expect the Bengals to keep Burrow.  I also expect it to cost them several other starters.  Jessie Bates, for example, is already as good as gone, and for all the Bengals’ assurances to the contrary, it wouldn’t shock me if they end up losing Higgins too.  And even if they don’t, paying both Higgins and Chase will mean cuts elsewhere. 

Well, Bates was always going to go and it wasn't to do with Burrow per se. It was more that his agent is the same agent as Watson and he was demanding guaranteed money that the Bengals weren't going to pay after just drafting Daxton Hill. The fact they have to keep Burrow, Chase and maybe Higgins is more of a detriment than just Burrow alone.

As for Higgins, they want to keep him and they will try. But if they can't get a long term deal, they can always tag him in 2025 so they'll at least get 2 more years of Burrow, Higgins and Chase playing together. That's worth it over trading him given how close we've been to winning a Super Bowl in the last 2 years.

Spending money on a QB does limit you elsewhere as the Browns fully know. Now it'll be up to the QB elevating those around them, the Bengals finding good 3rd tier FAs to fill gaps and Duke Tobin having good drafts. KC won last year by drafting well (see Creed Humphrey, Nick Bolton) and getting some really good minutes from key rookies to supplement their historic QB/TE and the Bengals will have to do that too in the future.

Edited by Mexal
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3 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Not convinced Lamar is better than Watson going forward. Lamar is probably peaked and platue-ing at this point, while Watson (scumbag that he is) is likely to be rising, performance wise.

I never want to be the guy paying for your past laurels, Rodgers, Lamar, im letting someone else pay those guys.

Watson is older than Jackson, has torn his ACL twice and will never win an MVP. Idk how you can say Lamar has peaked, but Watson can get better. And that also ignores the fact we've never seen Jackson with real weapons, hence why I said if you dropped him onto the Niners they'd instantly become the favs in the NFC and probably the NFL. 

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22 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Watson is older than Jackson, has torn his ACL twice and will never win an MVP. Idk how you can say Lamar has peaked, but Watson can get better. And that also ignores the fact we've never seen Jackson with real weapons, hence why I said if you dropped him onto the Niners they'd instantly become the favs in the NFC and probably the NFL. 

Really, I didnt realize Deshaun was older, I thought he was only like in his 3rd yr or so. Didnt he have a really huge 1st or second year and then fall into all his rapey troubles?

Anyways its not too important to me (DeShauns career), the issue I have with Lamar is the age old question of his durability as a mobile QB. I dont see either of them in a SB soon.

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If you were doing a draft of every player in the entire league, how many spots would you have to go before you hit a non-qb, and who would it be? My order would be:

Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Herbert, Lawrence, Hurts, Prescott, Jackson. Here's the first spot you could possibly take a non-qb. The remaining potential QBs available are Rodgers, Tua, Watson and Fields. And for other players, you gotta pick guys who are both young and excellent, like DE Bosa, RT Wirfs, DT Simmons, CB Gardner, WR Jefferson or WR Chase. But I'll be honest I don't feel that good about any of those picks.   

Also note that the first 5 guys are all in the AFC.  That's where the QB talent is.

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3 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Anyways its not too important to me (DeShauns career), the issue I have with Lamar is the age old question of his durability as a mobile QB. I dont see either of them in a SB soon.

I wouldn't be too worried about his durability for the next few years. That should really be a concern after he sustains a major injury and/or when it would be time to do his next contract. 

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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35781355/qb-bryce-young-measures-5-10-1-8-204-pounds-nfl-combine

You cannot draft this dude first overall. Tua looks small and was getting ragdolled all season and he's three inches taller and 20 pounds heavier than Young (also, I'm sure Young was doing a ton to up his weight, he probably is 10 pounds less than that).

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24 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35781355/qb-bryce-young-measures-5-10-1-8-204-pounds-nfl-combine

You cannot draft this dude first overall. Tua looks small and was getting ragdolled all season and he's three inches taller and 20 pounds heavier than Young (also, I'm sure Young was doing a ton to up his weight, he probably is 10 pounds less than that).

Yeah, I understand why people are dogging on Will Levis based on his stats at Kentucky this year, but the fact is that size does matter in the league.  There are outliers that can make it work; but if you're drafting first there's a reason for it... you're going to need someone that can take a beating for a couple years.

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2 hours ago, Rhom said:

Yeah, I understand why people are dogging on Will Levis based on his stats at Kentucky this year, but the fact is that size does matter in the league.  There are outliers that can make it work; but if you're drafting first there's a reason for it... you're going to need someone that can take a beating for a couple years.

You can be thin or short and still succeed. I don't think you can be both because like you said he's probably not going to be playing behind a good line and will regularly be hit by guys who make him look like he's in JH. 

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4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35781355/qb-bryce-young-measures-5-10-1-8-204-pounds-nfl-combine

You cannot draft this dude first overall. Tua looks small and was getting ragdolled all season and he's three inches taller and 20 pounds heavier than Young (also, I'm sure Young was doing a ton to up his weight, he probably is 10 pounds less than that).

Mayfield was considered to be undersized and he was like 6'1 215.

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Young is basically the exact same size as Murray, so it's hardly unprecedented to have him go #1.  Murray has been hit and miss this far in his career, but I'm skeptical it's because of his lack of size.

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3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lack of size limits some of the regular plays a team can run and it's reasonable to worry about a dude that small being able to hold up for 20 games. I wouldn't bet on it.

I’ve not watched a ton of actual Murray games from start to finish, as I usually do Red Zone on Sundays, but I’ve seen every Baker game from start to finish, at least on the Browns.  He got balls batted down by linemen a lot.  A frustrating amount. 

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But some other shorter guys had balls batted at basically the average rate (Wilson and Brees).  Being short doesn't help, but it's hardly an insurmountable obstacle.  Just one other thing to consider when drafting a guy.  

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26 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

But some other shorter guys had balls batted at basically the average rate (Wilson and Brees).  Being short doesn't help, but it's hardly an insurmountable obstacle.  Just one other thing to consider when drafting a guy.  

Again, I'm more concerned about how slight he is on top of being short. He's going to look like an actual child out there.

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Florida QB Anthony Richardson-

At 6-foot-4, 244 pounds, Richardson set combine records for a quarterback with a vertical jump of 40.5 inches and a broad jump of 10 feet, 9 inches. Richardson, in his only attempt, then uncorked an official clocking of 4.43 seconds in the 40-yard dash in Lucas Oil Field.

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