Craving Peaches Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 There are a few moments where Jon just seems to see red. Once where he attacks Ser Alliser after having enough of his crap. Quote In the blink of an eye, Jon had vaulted onto the table, dagger in his hand. Pyp made a grab for him, but he wrenched his leg away, and then he was sprinting down the table and kicking the bowl from Ser Alliser's hand. Stew went flying everywhere, spattering the brothers. Thorne recoiled. People were shouting, but Jon Snow did not hear them. He lunged at Ser Alliser's face with the dagger, slashing at those cold onyx eyes Another one where he's sparring with Iron Emmet and then Emmet says something and Jon absolutely thrashes him and can't even remember...This is particularly interesting, Jon notes he hasn't slept well the night before, he isn't fighting well, then Emmett knocks him on the head and he has a sort of vision and then he beats Emmett quite viciously. Quote He was almost ready to lower his blade and call a halt when Emmett feinted low and came in over his shield with a savage forehand slash that caught Jon on the temple. He staggered, his helm and head both ringing from the force of the blow. For half a heartbeat the world beyond his eyeslit was a blur. And then the years were gone, and he was back at Winterfell once more, wearing a quilted leather coat in place of mail and plate. His sword was made of wood, and it was Robb who stood facing him, not Iron Emmett. Every morning they had trained together, since they were big enough to walk; Snow and Stark, spinning and slashing about the wards of Winterfell, shouting and laughing, sometimes crying when there was no one else to see. They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. "I'm Prince Aemon the Dragonknight," Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, "Well, I'm Florian the Fool." Or Robb would say, "I'm the Young Dragon," and Jon would reply, "I'm Ser Ryam Redwyne." Quote That morning he called it first. "I'm Lord of Winterfell!" he cried, as he had a hundred times before. Only this time, this time, Robb had answered, "You can't be Lord of Winterfell, you're bastard-born. My lady mother says you can't ever be the Lord of Winterfell." Quote I thought I had forgotten that. Jon could taste blood in his mouth, from the blow he'd taken. In the end Halder and Horse had to pull him away from Iron Emmett, one man on either arm. The ranger sat on the ground dazed, his shield half in splinters, the visor of his helm knocked askew, and his sword six yards away. "Jon, enough," Halder was shouting, "he's down, you disarmed him. Enough!" No. Not enough. Never enough. Jon let his sword drop. "I'm sorry," he muttered. "Emmett, are you hurt?" And after this exchange Jon wonders why he's in such a state. Quote Why am I so angry? he asked himself, but it was a stupid question. Lord of Winterfell. I could be the Lord of Winterfell. My father's heir. It was not Lord Eddard's face he saw floating before him, though; it was Lady Catelyn's. With her deep blue eyes and hard cold mouth, she looked a bit like Stannis. Iron, he thought, but brittle. She was looking at him the way she used to look at him at Winterfell, whenever he had bested Robb at swords or sums or most anything. Who are you? that look had always seemed to say. This is not your place. Why are you here? To add to the above I think Emmet unintentionally touched an (unconscious?) sore point of Jon's with regards to Winterfell. If we have a look at Jon's dream again (I am a fan of the idea of dreams as wish fulfilment, no judgement please ): Quote Burning shafts hissed upward, trailing tongues of fire. Scarecrow brothers tumbled down, black cloaks ablaze. "Snow," an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armoured in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. He slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she'd appeared. The world dissolved into a red mist. Jon stabbed and slashed and cut. He hacked down Donal Noye and gutted Deaf Dick Follard. Qhorin Halfhand stumbled to his knees, trying in vain to staunch the flow of blood from his neck. "I am the Lord of Winterfell," Jon screamed. It was Robb before him now, his hair wet with melting snow. Longclaw took his head off. Then a gnarled hand seized Jon roughly by the shoulder. He whirled … Now obviously Jon would never actually kill Robb to get Winterfell, he loves Robb and even if he didn't his honour would stop him, as Jon really doesn't want to be seen as a dishonourable, usurping bastard. But I don't think it is a stretch to say that a small, deep-down, unconscious part of him might; he's only human after all. What do you think? What is causing these moments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 You may enjoy this thread from a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 47 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: You may enjoy this thread from a few years back. Thank you for the recommendation. Was good to read. I want to focus on Jon's unconscious motives and mind. This is all leading up to my Magnum Opus - A Psychoanalysis of Jon Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 5 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: You may enjoy this thread from a few years back. A thread by Bemused? Yay! Thanks KBF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerDuncan Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Yo F**** C***! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 hours ago, SerDunc_an said: Yo F**** C***! Is this what Jon will say when he recovers and sees Bowen Marsh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerDuncan Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 6 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: Is this what Jon will say when he recovers and sees Bowen Marsh? lol that'd be nice You may have read me wrong, it was a - Project Mayhem reference. Switching into a completely different alias when triggered by certain stimuli, not remembering flashes (episodic). The Emmet incident reminded me of what pretty Leto received. Maybe I should rewatch Fincher less. Anyway my take is that Jon is a pretty advanced fighter for his age, but nowhere close to the best. And his dragonblade wouldn't improve his combat either, like power steering for a budding racer. But his spurts of fury seem at odds with his thoughts when he feels he isn't adequate in a fight. Seems like someone is influencing his emotional (and physical mayhap) limits, the BryndenRaven for instance? Killing the boy to birth the man, saving face for a leader-to-be in such a hostile social environs. And of course, the physical part, much like enhancing a character's attributes in an RPG. Letting the course of events do that is a serious no-no, conditions requiring utmost haste after all. Alternatively thinking of the multiple personality slash dissociative identity scenario, it warrants a look up the theory speculated in Shyamalan's Eastrail 177 trilogy, particularly Split where physical capabilities are limited by the alter ego's mind and vice versa, super/metahuman strengths and feats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 As if the Stark hate vultures didnt have enough to regurgitate on the subject of 'sanity'. They have eternity for that's when TWoW is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said: As if the Stark hate vultures didnt have enough to regurgitate on the subject of 'sanity'. They have eternity for that's when TWoW is coming. Maybe I should change the title, don't want to give them any more fuel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 28 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Maybe I should change the title, don't want to give them any more fuel... Oh no! It wasn't about your OP, the post before mine. If the haters were a teeny bit rational (which they aren't in any case) they'd use points like that to paint the Starks as genetically schizo or something like that. Not to say that post was anything like that in content or intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 5 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: If the haters were a teeny bit rational (which they aren't in any case) they'd use points like that to paint the Starks as genetically schizo or something like that. The trolls are perpetual motion machines of hate and nonsense. @Craving Peaches could have said how nice it is that Jon walks his grandmother to church* and they would lose their minds. *Just used as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 6 hours ago, LongRider said: *Just used as an example. Whoa, have I become so prickly as to earn disclaimers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said: Whoa, have I become so prickly as to earn disclaimers *Well played! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 On 2/3/2023 at 11:45 PM, kissdbyfire said: You may enjoy this thread from a few years back. Came here to post exactly that Edit: Maybe not that since this one predates my entry to the forums by about a year, I recall another Jon Berserker thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 17 hours ago, LongRider said: The trolls are perpetual motion machines of hate and nonsense. @Craving Peaches could have said how nice it is that Jon walks his grandmother to church* and they would lose their minds. How true that is. But also on the other side, Dany visiting the sick is cited as proof of racial supremacism - Honestly the noise to signal ratio here is just crazy deafening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 What caused those moments is Jon’s volatile temper. Which we first saw during Robert’s visit to Winterfell. Brandon Stark had the same temper. Arya has the same dangerous temper. The wolf’s blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 50 minutes ago, Springwatch said: Dany visiting the sick is cited as proof of Aryan supremacism Who claimed this? All I read was people saying that Daenerys viewing herself as immune to diseases that troubles 'common men' was based in part on Viserys' special beliefs about how the Targaryens are better than 'lesser men'...No one to my knowledge has said that visiting the sick = Aryan supremacism. Also 'Aryans' don't even exist in-universe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 24 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Who claimed this? All I read was people saying that Daenerys viewing herself as immune to diseases that troubles 'common men' was based in part on Viserys' special beliefs about how the Targaryens are better than 'lesser men'...No one to my knowledge has said that visiting the sick = Aryan supremacism. Also 'Aryans' don't even exist in-universe... ValyAryans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 47 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Who claimed this? All I read was people saying that Daenerys viewing herself as immune to diseases that troubles 'common men' was based in part on Viserys' special beliefs about how the Targaryens are better than 'lesser men'...No one to my knowledge has said that visiting the sick = Aryan supremacism. Also 'Aryans' don't even exist in-universe... Many posts take roughly your position, and many of them use 'Aryan' - it says a lot in a short word; that's why I used it too. I can change it to 'racial', and the point still stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Springwatch said: Many posts take roughly your position, and many of them use 'Aryan' - it says a lot in a short word; that's why I used it too. I can change it to 'racial', and the point still stands. I have never read anything that says Daenerys visiting the sick is Aryan Supremacism. People were talking about how Daenerys' beliefs were influenced by thinking that the Targaryens were better than common/lesser men, but no one has ever, to my knowledge, claimed that the act of Daenerys visiting the sick was equivalent to Aryan supremacism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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