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On 3/14/2023 at 3:23 AM, $erPounce said:

I rewatched House of the Dragon not too long ago with several causal watchers who have never read the books and thus have some insight into their opinions. I posted this here because you guys might be interested in that.

  • They don't understand why HBO chose to do a show without familiar characters from GOT. They would have preferred a direct prequel or sequel. I expect the Jon Snow show and quite possibly the Dunk & Egg show (if they still remember who characters like Maester Aemon and Barristan are, which I doubt) will be more to their liking. Both shows will have recognizable characters from GOT.
  • Casual watchers have not been able to remember any of the characters' names from HOTD. The relationships between characters is also very difficult for them to understand. For example, I still had to explain in episode 7 that Daemon is the brother of Viserys I, something that is made explicitly clear several times in the first episode. It was also not clear to them for a long time that Alicent was Otto's daughter.
  • The casual watchers overlooked a lot. Among other things, they did not see that Aemma's son Baelon was dead in the first episode and thought he and Aegon II were the same person. They also had no idea what the significance of the green dress was (its exposition was not exactly subtle, but it was still not clear to them).
  • They were also constantly looking for references to GOT. Perhaps it was not a bad idea of the showrunners to use the catspaw dagger in HOTD with the Long Night prophecy as a recognition point for casual GOT fans, in an attempt to get their attention and interest. They were also pleased to hear the word "Dracarys." In the book canon, the word was not used by past dragon riders because the word was invented by Daenerys herself.
  • The casual watchers were having a lot of trouble with the timeskip in episode 6. Nothing was clear to them anymore and they couldn't follow it, especially with characters like Harwin and Laena who suddenly turned out to be revelant after previously being unimportant. One person I watched with thought Harwin and Criston Cole were the same person. Don't ask me how.
  • Those people were fans of episode 9, and they especially loved the twist with Rhaenys in the Dragonpit.

The most common misunderstanding I’ve seen is that a lot of show casuals think Rhaenys is Viserys and Daemon’s older sister. Since the show doesn’t really go into Aemon and Baelon’s history though, I don’t think it hurts their understanding of the show. 

I agree that the Snow show will be huge. Even when the news broke last summer, the reaction was massive. That said, I don’t think it will give fans the closure they’re looking for. 
 

On 3/14/2023 at 2:18 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

So The Last of Us is officially a bigger hit than HOTD, at least in the US.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/the-last-of-us-season-1-finale-ratings-1235351440/

For those of you who watched both shows, which one did you think was better? 

In retrospect, the big HOTD vs. ROP media rivalry was a bit premature. Andor ended up being the fantasy/sci-fi show the captured all the critical praise and nominations, and The Last of Us brought in the biggest audience.

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2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

If Daemon doesn’t have any children, wouldn’t Rhaenyra’s potential sons be considered for the throne?

Perhaps, but until such a time she would be as royal as Rhaenys - who is Lady Velaryon and doesn't even live at the royal court. And not only could Daemon have sons eventually, but Viserys could have some, too. He desperately wants a son in the pilot.

My point was that the show doesn't properly flesh out Rhaenyra's status while Daemon is yet the heir - especially in relation to what her mother expects of her.

And in fact if we consider how in the book the female claim was invalidated both in 92 AC and then also in 101 AC also male heirs through the female line ... royal women marrying outside the royal family and their children are literally irrelevant. They don't have claims - meaning they also have no duty to fulfill for the king and the dynasty.

Perhaps you can still say that a princess has to marry a man of the king's choosing if the king wants to bribe that man with a royal wife ... but the king can and - as per the Great Council - has to do without any such children.

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Milly Alcock has confirmed that she’s not returning next season:

https://winteriscoming.net/2023/03/17/milly-alcock-wont-return-house-of-the-dragon-season-2-flashbacks/amp/

Judging from both this interview and ones she’s done in the past, I get the impression that Milly was overwhelmed by how famous she became overnight.

Milly’s also going to be starring in a West End production of The Crucible as Abigail Williams, which is ironic since Emma D’Arcy starred in a previous production as Elizabeth Proctor. Is The Crucible like the inverse of A Christmas Carol, where it’s more popular in Britain than in America?

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On 3/15/2023 at 10:33 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

 

In retrospect, the big HOTD vs. ROP media rivalry was a bit premature. Andor ended up being the fantasy/sci-fi show the captured all the critical praise and nominations, and The Last of Us brought in the biggest audience.

The Last of Us audience is not much bigger that HotD audience was. It's funny that people now use 'HotD is now #2 biggest opening because TLoU overtook it" to trash HotD. I guess when if season 2 of HotD or something else overtakes The Last of Us, then those sae fans will decide The Last of Us is now trash or irrelevant or whatever.

The supposed HotD vs ROP rivalry was dumb because those two are completely different. (Also, ROP is really bad, but that's not because it's different from HotD.)

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On 3/17/2023 at 11:42 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Milly Alcock has confirmed that she’s not returning next season:

https://winteriscoming.net/2023/03/17/milly-alcock-wont-return-house-of-the-dragon-season-2-flashbacks/amp/

Judging from both this interview and ones she’s done in the past, I get the impression that Milly was overwhelmed by how famous she became overnight.

 

I never thought there would be young Rhaenyra and Alicent flashbacks in season 2 - we had the first 5 episodes of season 1  so we wouldn't need flashacks.

The flashbacks I'm hoping to see and that I think would work well to give more context and background to the family's history and to the history of the Dance dragons in particular, are potential flashback to the time of Jaehaerys' reign - seeing the Old King, Good Queen Alysanne and/or Aemon and Baelon with their dragons, and maybe child versions of Rhaenys, Viserys and Daemon.

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On 3/15/2023 at 10:33 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

The most common misunderstanding I’ve seen is that a lot of show casuals think Rhaenys is Viserys and Daemon’s older sister. Since the show doesn’t really go into Aemon and Baelon’s history though, I don’t think it hurts their understanding of the show. 

This seems like another consequence of not paying attention, because I don't get how you could conclude from the show that Rhaenys is Viserys' sister.

But come to think of it, it's also the consequence of one of the few times that the show has dumbed down the story - by framing the Rhaenys vs Viserys succession as Jaehaerys "oldest living descendant", as if this was why she was considered passed over for the throne, which makes it look like her and Rhaenyra's situations are the same and that older sisters inheriting over younger brothers is a thing they would normally consider doing in Westeros, and completely fails to get across the fact that Rhaenys' advantage was that she was the first one in the line of succession according to tradition as the only living descendant of the older brother.

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8 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

This seems like another consequence of not paying attention, because I don't get how you could conclude from the show that Rhaenys is Viserys' sister.

But come to think of it, it's also the consequence of one of the few times that the show has dumbed down the story - by framing the Rhaenys vs Viserys succession as Jaehaerys "oldest living descendant", as if this was why she was considered passed over for the throne, which makes it look like her and Rhaenyra's situations are the same and that older sisters inheriting over younger brothers is a thing they would normally consider doing in Westeros, and completely fails to get across the fact that Rhaenys' advantage was that she was the first one in the line of succession according to tradition as the only living descendant of the older brother.

This just dumbed down the Aemon-Baelon thing (the former is never mentioned by name in the show). The Prologue and later dialogue repeatedly establishes that Rhaenys and Viserys are cousins, not siblings.

They even include the most moronic line ever by Viserys saying Rhaenys is his 'favorite cousin' ... which really makes no sense considering his beloved wife also happens to be his cousin (something the show also never established although they gave Aemma the Targaryen looks) and Rhaenys is his only female cousin aside from Aemma (he also would have at least three male bastard cousins with Saera's obscure children, but we have no idea if they exist in the show).

That is, if we only talk first cousins - second cousins would also include the Baratheon descendants of Boremund.

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I thought Viserys' line was  just out

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

This just dumbed down the Aemon-Baelon thing (the former is never mentioned by name in the show). The Prologue and later dialogue repeatedly establishes that Rhaenys and Viserys are cousins, not siblings.

They even include the most moronic line ever by Viserys saying Rhaenys is his 'favorite cousin' ... which really makes no sense considering his beloved wife also happens to be his cousin (something the show also never established although they gave Aemma the Targaryen looks) and Rhaenys is his only female cousin aside from Aemma (he also would have at least three male bastard cousins with Saera's obscure children, but we have no idea if they exist in the show).

That is, if we only talk first cousins - second cousins would also include the Baratheon descendants of Boremund.

I thought Viserys' line was obviously just out of courtesy and obviously false, not something to be taken seriously 

I think Rhaenyra mentioned that Arryns are her cousins, which will have to come up again when Jace visits the Eyrie, probably in the season 2 premiere.

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35 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

I thought Viserys' line was obviously just out of courtesy and obviously false, not something to be taken seriously.

Would you actually tell your only other cousin she was your favorite cousin when you were actually married to your only other cousin and everybody in the room knew you were very much in love with the cousin you married?

They could have made this a joke if Viserys had said something along the lines of 'Don't tell Aemma, but we all know that you have always been my favorite cousin' or 'Aemma aside, you were always my favorite cousin.' But the way it is said in the show it indicates he actually meant what he said - or at least he genuinely meant to flatter Rhaenys there.

35 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

I think Rhaenyra mentioned that Arryns are her cousins, which will have to come up again when Jace visits the Eyrie, probably in the season 2 premiere.

That Aemma was an Arryn is first introduced earlier when Viserys tells Rhaenyra that his own marriage had been an arranged marriage for reasons of state (he says something about the Vale having as large an army as the North which seems to make little sense in context - the best sense you could make of this talk is that Rhaenys and Corlys already knew they had the Starks on their side in 92 AC so Baelon arranged a match for his son with his Arryn cousin to ensure the Vale would back him if there was a succession war).

It is then reiterated when the Blacks look for allies at the end of the season. But what the show never actually mentioned or introduced is the fact that Aemma Arryn was a Targaryen on her mother's side and that she and Viserys I were first cousins. One can kind of infer that this may have been the case since Aemma looked like a Targaryen, but the 'favorite cousin' quote about Rhaenys could actually be used as an argument against that idea in the show universe.

Neither HBO's official family tree nor the credits of the show actually do establish that Aemma Arryn had Targaryen blood nor that she was another granddaughter of the Old King. Now, I expect that there is a decent enough chance that season 2 might establish that when Jeyne Arryn is introduced ... but strictly speaking the more interesting aspect there is how exactly Jeyne and Rhaenyra/Jace are related to each other on the Arryn side than dwelling or going back to the fact that Aemma Arryn had a Targaryen mother.

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This is probably a rabbit hole that I shouldn’t go down, but there’s so much talk online about how Daemon groomed Rhaenyra, Daemon groomed his niece, but. . . didn’t he technically molest her, which is arguably even worse? He didn’t just manipulate her, he initiated sex and only backed out at the last second because of his plot-dependent ED. Maybe it’s a distinction without a difference, but I find it kind of odd that it hasn’t come up in all the conversations about Daemon’s villainy.

Edit: According to Dr. Google, there isn’t much difference between the two, but socially I still think one has been used longer than the other and is therefore more damning. Thinking of Daemon as a molester rather than as a groomer definitely feels sicker and more irredeemable.

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I am always dubious of language that seems driven by a fad. "Grooming" has been everywhere this last year, for political reasons.

I think the predestined nature of their relationship ( since anyone familiar with the material knows they'll be married down the line) is probably why it doesn't bug many people.

 

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3 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This is probably a rabbit hole that I shouldn’t go down, but there’s so much talk online about how Daemon groomed Rhaenyra, Daemon groomed his niece, but. . . didn’t he technically molest her, which is arguably even worse? He didn’t just manipulate her, he initiated sex and only backed out at the last second because of his plot-dependent ED. Maybe it’s a distinction without a difference, but I find it kind of odd that it hasn’t come up in all the conversations about Daemon’s villainy.

Edit: According to Dr. Google, there isn’t much difference between the two, but socially I still think one has been used longer than the other and is therefore more damning. Thinking of Daemon as a molester rather than as a groomer definitely feels sicker and more irredeemable.

As presented in the show I see little villainy there. Rhaenyra is no young girl, much older than in the book where she would also be almost a woman in 111 AC, and it isn't that they do start fondling each other because she is not interested. Isn't she already of age at that time as per the show rules? Things start with her and Alicent being 15, then Alicent is married to Viserys about a year later, then we jump ahead to Aegon turning two years, and in episode 4 Helaena has already been born. That would make Rhaenyra eighteen or thereabouts in episode 4.

In context I'd say his shitty character comes to the fore when he doesn't know what he actually wants with his niece - something Rhaenyra at least understands later, at her wedding feast, when she teases him because of this. Abandoning her in this manner is just shitty, and worse is him later besmirching her honor by actually claiming he did have sex with her - most likely because he was not man enough to admit that he was impotent and/or was actually not asshole enough to actually deflower her.

'Grooming' as a term means that you only get close to somebody, win their trust, with the intention to sexually abuse them - and even if Daemon did that (which I think there is little to no evidence in book and show both for lack of time) then the fact that he wanted and eventually does marry her kind of undermines the idea.

When you look at the book Daemon is the man who had the least time to try to worm his way into young Rhaenyra's mind and heart. We have Criston Cole, a grown and very attractive man, at her side since she was a small girl. We do have Harwin Strong at court in her larger circle, and many others, even Mushroom.

The way I read the character in the book we do have a pampered princess there who grows up understanding that men very much desire her for both her looks and who and what she is. Being no Saera, she only takes what she really wants, though, and not everything that's offered.

While we can imagine that Daemon could pay some visits to his 5-7-year-old niece without her giving consent while she wasn't yet the Heir Apparent, upon his return in 111 AC Rhaenyra was almost a woman grown, Heir Apparent and Princess of Dragonstone, about to become the leader of her own faction at court. During the months she spend a lot of time with Daemon, flew to Dragonstone and back, etc. we would not have a vulnerable young girl of 14 who could not turn away her uncle if she wouldn't want to spend time with him, like a normal girl in the real world might. Rhaenyra had her own household and was surrounded by her very own servants, tutors, maids, maesters, septas, and ladies ... and her very own sworn shield, Ser Criston Cole. The reason why Daemon was never turned away, why she spent as much time with him as she did ... was because she wanted to, and the only person who could do anything about it, her royal father, didn't object. If Rhaenyra had felt uncomfortable or pressured by Daemon, she could have easily gotten rid of him without a final confrontation or talk. All she would need to do is to instruct Ser Criston and the other people in her household to not allow Prince Daemon to entier her apartments. A princess - and especially Rhaenyra in her exalted position - decides who she receives and who is not getting an audience.

While the show fails to portray Rhaenyra as she would have been - at the very center of court grand and joyous court along with Viserys and Alicent - it does show that Rhaenyra herself constantly seeks out Daemon, beginning with her looking for him in the pilot episode. This is, from the start, not a relationship where the younger person is at a disadvantage nor is she exploited, coerced, or abused ... until the season finale, that is.

We also see how Rhaenyra effectively wears the pants, so to speak, in all her other relationships. With Criston, with Laenor, and with Harwin.

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2 hours ago, Ran said:

I am always dubious of language that seems driven by a fad. "Grooming" has been everywhere this last year, for political reasons.

I think the predestined nature of their relationship ( since anyone familiar with the material knows they'll be married down the line) is probably why it doesn't bug many people.

 

I suspect that “molest” will long outlive “groom” in the common vernacular. Since the show really leaned into Daemon being an abuser (murdering Rhea, choking Rhaenyra), I think most casual fans accepted that this was just further proof that Daemon was a bad dude. Among the more passionate fans on places like Twitter and Reddit, however, Groomer Daemon is a huge point of contention.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

As presented in the show I see little villainy there. Rhaenyra is no young girl, much older than in the book where she would also be almost a woman in 111 AC, and it isn't that they do start fondling each other because she is not interested. Isn't she already of age at that time as per the show rules? Things start with her and Alicent being 15, then Alicent is married to Viserys about a year later, then we jump ahead to Aegon turning two years, and in episode 4 Helaena has already been born. That would make Rhaenyra eighteen or thereabouts in episode 4.

In context I'd say his shitty character comes to the fore when he doesn't know what he actually wants with his niece - something Rhaenyra at least understands later, at her wedding feast, when she teases him because of this. Abandoning her in this manner is just shitty, and worse is him later besmirching her honor by actually claiming he did have sex with her - most likely because he was not man enough to admit that he was impotent and/or was actually not asshole enough to actually deflower her.

'Grooming' as a term means that you only get close to somebody, win their trust, with the intention to sexually abuse them - and even if Daemon did that (which I think there is little to no evidence in book and show both for lack of time) then the fact that he wanted and eventually does marry her kind of undermines the idea.

When you look at the book Daemon is the man who had the least time to try to worm his way into young Rhaenyra's mind and heart. We have Criston Cole, a grown and very attractive man, at her side since she was a small girl. We do have Harwin Strong at court in her larger circle, and many others, even Mushroom.

The way I read the character in the book we do have a pampered princess there who grows up understanding that men very much desire her for both her looks and who and what she is. Being no Saera, she only takes what she really wants, though, and not everything that's offered.

While we can imagine that Daemon could pay some visits to his 5-7-year-old niece without her giving consent while she wasn't yet the Heir Apparent, upon his return in 111 AC Rhaenyra was almost a woman grown, Heir Apparent and Princess of Dragonstone, about to become the leader of her own faction at court. During the months she spend a lot of time with Daemon, flew to Dragonstone and back, etc. we would not have a vulnerable young girl of 14 who could not turn away her uncle if she wouldn't want to spend time with him, like a normal girl in the real world might. Rhaenyra had her own household and was surrounded by her very own servants, tutors, maids, maesters, septas, and ladies ... and her very own sworn shield, Ser Criston Cole. The reason why Daemon was never turned away, why she spent as much time with him as she did ... was because she wanted to, and the only person who could do anything about it, her royal father, didn't object. If Rhaenyra had felt uncomfortable or pressured by Daemon, she could have easily gotten rid of him without a final confrontation or talk. All she would need to do is to instruct Ser Criston and the other people in her household to not allow Prince Daemon to entier her apartments. A princess - and especially Rhaenyra in her exalted position - decides who she receives and who is not getting an audience.

While the show fails to portray Rhaenyra as she would have been - at the very center of court grand and joyous court along with Viserys and Alicent - it does show that Rhaenyra herself constantly seeks out Daemon, beginning with her looking for him in the pilot episode. This is, from the start, not a relationship where the younger person is at a disadvantage nor is she exploited, coerced, or abused ... until the season finale, that is.

We also see how Rhaenyra effectively wears the pants, so to speak, in all her other relationships. With Criston, with Laenor, and with Harwin.

Good point about the age; I got it a bit mixed up there. Granted, they also made Rhaenyra look particularly young and innocent, which I’m sure was intentional. 

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Good point about the age; I got it a bit mixed up there. Granted, they also made Rhaenyra look particularly young and innocent, which I’m sure was intentional. 

Yeah, but regardless how old she is whenever the thing with Daemon starts ... she is an adult or almost an adult and 'her own woman' in the sense that the guy didn't force himself on her nor seduce her (if we go with the Mushroom 'Uncle, show me how to entice men' version). And that is certainly the narrative we also get for her eventual marriage with Daemon in 120 AC where we get the rumor that Rhaenyra comforted Daemon after the death of Laena and that's how she got pregnant with Aegon.

For me it also seems clear that Rhaenyra is the one who wants Daemon in the show after Laena and Harwin's death. Daemon is certainly not disinterested, either, but he wouldn't have pushed things had she not given him very clear signals.

In the book the sources do indicate that Daemon's interest in Rhaenyra may have only been part of his desire for the throne - even before she was named heir Viserys' only child would have been the perfect bride for his eventual successor - but that is clearly not the case in the show. There we see that Rhaenyra and Daemon have a unique bond. They very much care for each other long before the possibility of them becoming lovers is on the table. Both Daemon's support for Rhaenyra after her mother's death as well as him backing down in the second episode wasn't motivated by his secret desire to one day get into the pants of his niece.

And while the choking thing certainly makes him an ass ... the vibe one gets from Daemon in the finale is more like that of a guy who is mentally not well, a half-mad loose cannon you have to watch, not somebody who is in charge. It is really telling there that Rhaenyra asks Jace to keep an eye on him. And while there is a cool part to the subsequent scene with the Kingsguard knights ... the guy also appears half-mad in his extreme threats there, like he also does when he fantasizes about Alicent murdering his dying brother. As I keep saying - the guy is like the young Mad King with muscles, a sword, and a dragon. And thinking about that ... if they go with a Nettles romance there they might depict it as the mad romance of a complete and irresponsible lunatic. Because that's what he is there, if you consider his duties to his family and dynasty. If the show actually depicts him as dead and we get a corpse, then the funeral could depict Rhaenyra, Baela, Rhaena, and Aegon all spitting on his remains.

I guess, though, the finale could have done well with some of the scenes that were cut, especially by properly depicting stillborn Visenya and how her being a dead monstrosity affected both Rhaenyra and Daemon in the aftermath of the news about the death of Viserys and the coup.

It will be equally interesting to see how the parallel story of Aemond and Alys is going to go - because as I wrote above somewhere this whole thing also only makes some sense if the guy is really, really infatuated with the woman ... to the point that he forgets/no longer cares that he is betrothed, that he is the Prince Regent running the government of King Aegon II, that his mother and his sister and his elder brother and niece and nephew and younger brother all need him and are dependent on him.

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On 2/9/2023 at 2:52 PM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

It wasn't just you.

A lot of people noticed it. And it made me pretty upset.

D&D were extremely lazy. Casterly Rock is just a large rock formation overlooking the sea. Just create a big cliff with CGI and put up a door, a few parapets and watchtowers on it and you're done. The interior can be dim and otherwise dressed up with tapestries over stone walls.

Not hard.

In fact, Casterly Rock would be an easy set to make and film since you can literally go into a cave and dress it up with scarlet and gold props.

On 2/11/2023 at 3:21 PM, Annara Snow said:

Cregan Stark's and Jeyne Arryn's support for the Blacks was also lukewarm, as was Borros Baratheon's for the Greens. Most of the great houses, apart from those with relatives on the two Targaryen sides, or those who just needed an excuse to do their thing like the Red Kraken, weren't doing much until the late stage of the war...when most of the dragons were dead. I don't think you need to look for reasons beyond "don't really care about the Targaryen in fighting, don't want our armies to get burned by dragons".

I don't entirely disagree.

Jeyne was definitely lukewarm about the matter (don't blame her, Daemon was a menace in the Vale) but Borros and Cregan both did their best as far as I'm concerned.

They both had more pressing concerns: Borros had to deal with the Dornishmen first and Cregan had to prepare the North for winter...which was the wise decision to make as the winter that followed the Dance was awful and long.

Speaking of Dornishmen, I hope the Martells make some big appearances. Not only for Qoren Martell's infamous one-liner (I'd rather sleep with scorpions...) but for Aliandra and her schemes to not only pillage the Stormlands but also seize a dragon for herself. Don't the Dornish join the Triarchy in retaking the Stepstones and laying waste to House Velaryon? In any case, the Martell storyline in GoT was basically a horrifically written porno with bad sex that took place in an otherwise beautiful location. HoTD can redeem that.

On 3/4/2023 at 2:11 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Let’s hope that they cast Addam of Hull and that Laenor-is-Addam is just a silly fan theory.

PLEASE LET IT BE TRUE, GOD!!!!

I would really hate that. It's not even that difficult to fix. Just make it so that there is an extra dragon on Dragonstone created specifically for the TV show and have Addam of Hull claim that dragon.

On 3/6/2023 at 4:16 PM, Lord Varys said:

Flashbacks to 92 AC and perhaps even (the preparations for) the wedding of Viserys and Aemma could be great.

Agreed.

The show needs flashbacks. Like the scene I heard about between Rhaenyra and a baby Aegon is something that needs to be shown as their relationship deteriorates.

Condal made a mistake in rushing to have the first season end with the death of Lucerys. While I think the entire first episode should've been focused on the deaths of Alysanne and Baelon and the ensuing Great Council of Harrenhal, GRRM had an interesting idea of starting even further back with Maegor and then jumping towards Alyssa's death, Jaehaerys and Alysanne's quarrels and the rivalry/friendship of Aemon and Baelon.

I've always been of the mindset that the actual story of Dance of the Dragons starts with Aemon's death. That's the beginning of the beginning of the end of the Targaryen dynasty.

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57 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Jeyne was definitely lukewarm about the matter (don't blame her, Daemon was a menace in the Vale) but Borros and Cregan both did their best as far as I'm concerned.

Jeyne does sent 10,000 men in the end - there aren't a lot of men coming earlier (although we have a Royce knight at Rhaenyra's court, indicating that she had some support from there) but that seems because Rhaenyra already had taken the throne and they didn't think they needed more men. Not to mention that winter begins officially in 130 AC, meaning it was autumn in 129 AC and that would mean that the passes were already had or impossible to cross.

57 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Speaking of Dornishmen, I hope the Martells make some big appearances. Not only for Qoren Martell's infamous one-liner (I'd rather sleep with scorpions...) but for Aliandra and her schemes to not only pillage the Stormlands but also seize a dragon for herself. Don't the Dornish join the Triarchy in retaking the Stepstones and laying waste to House Velaryon? In any case, the Martell storyline in GoT was basically a horrifically written porno with bad sex that took place in an otherwise beautiful location. HoTD can redeem that.

With Aliandra there are ways to add some stuff - both the Greens and the Blacks could try to get her onboard through marriage. The Greens could offer Daeron's hand, the Blacks Joffrey's.

57 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

I've always been of the mindset that the actual story of Dance of the Dragons starts with Aemon's death. That's the beginning of the beginning of the end of the Targaryen dynasty.

Gyldayn's narrative certainly starts his story of the origins of the Dance with the succession of Jaehaerys I. 'The Heirs of the Dragon' doesn't just cover the reign of Viserys I but does indeed start with the death of Aemon and Baelon.

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Are there any well-written critiques of HOTD out there? The only one I’ve found (beyond the Honest Trailer lol) was that one piece for EW that talked about how, by trying to make Rhaenyra and Alicent virtuous, the writers inadvertently made them boring. We have critiques here, and I’ve seen a lot of people on Reddit and in YouTube comments talk about the things about the show that bug them, but I haven’t really seen anyone put it together in an article or video yet.

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2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Are there any well-written critiques of HOTD out there? The only one I’ve found (beyond the Honest Trailer lol) was that one piece for EW that talked about how, by trying to make Rhaenyra and Alicent virtuous, the writers inadvertently made them boring. We have critiques here, and I’ve seen a lot of people on Reddit and in YouTube comments talk about the things about the show that bug them, but I haven’t really seen anyone put it together in an article or video yet.

They've neither made them virtuous nor boring. If "the show sucks because they didn't go with the in-universe's historians' misogynistic tropes where the women are all evil, crazy and catty to each other" reviews are an example of "good critiques", I don't want to know what the bad ones are 

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