The Targaryens are no worse than any other great house in Westeros.

[Lord Varys]

5 hours ago, Prince Rhaegar Targareyen said:

Instead now they can March all the way to Dorne to die even further away for a King they’ve no chance of ever actually seeing. Or further south to die in a family feud for said family.

That is not a good comparison since the folks in the Stormlands and the Reach did the very same thing before the Conquest - for a longer time, in more wars.

If you reread the history of the First Dornish War you will notice that Aegon the Conqueror did not, in fact, involve any levies from any other region than the Stormlands, the Reach, and the Crownlands for his attempt to conquer Dorne.

The Young Dragon seems to have marshalled a larger army (Rickon Stark fought and died beneath his banner), but the bulk of his strength would have yet again come from the Reach, the Stormlands, and the Crownlands, one assumes - with men hungry for glory coming from everywhere also volunteering, of course.

20 minutes ago, Adelstein said:

I don't think this is fair. Three kings died defying the Conquest, and two more fought against it (one successfully), with only the Starks and Arryns bowing without a fight (after witnessing what happened to the Gardeners and Hoares, one notes).

But all that didn't have to be enough to bend the knee forever. Why didn't they play it like Balon after Robert forced him to bend the knee? Why didn't they murder Aegon and his sisters to rid himself of this pest? Why didn't they pay the Faceless Men or some other assassins to slay or poison the dragons?

This Conquest only makes sense if the surviving kings and their bannermen had little to no issue to, as I put it, suck Aegon's cock. Because if they had yet had the will and wish to fight for their independence ... they just would have.

50 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Also Visenya basically threatened a son in front of her mother to get them to surrender. It's not like Sharra just surrendered willingly with no coercion involved.

Nobody said that they had much of a choice in that particular scenario. But why not just kill the woman as soon as Ronnel was out of her clutches? She was in the Eyrie at that time.

We have the same kind of nonsensical scenarios later on when Maegor and Visenya apparently fly to Oldtown without an army - which means the Hightowers could and should and would have fucking killed them as soon as they entered the Hightower/separated from their dragons.

[Craving Peaches]

8 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

But why not just kill the woman as soon as Ronnel was out of her clutches? She was in the Eyrie at that time.

Because she had a massive flying WMD with her?

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Because she had a massive flying WMD with her?

But the dragon should be less dangerous - or no longer dangerous at all - without her rider. Or better still - why not take Visenya hostage? Would Aegon then have dared attack the Eyrie on dragonback if it could have meant the death of his sister-wife?

Those kind of plotholes are all over the place there. I mean, both Visenya and Maegor flew to Oldtown and landed there - both dragonriders upholding Maegor's tyrannical rule. If the Hightowers had killed them both it would have been all over.

[Craving Peaches]

18 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Would Aegon then have dared attack the Eyrie on dragonback if it could have meant the death of his sister-wife?

I don't think they wanted to take such a risk or invite retribution, because Visenya showed how easy it was with someone who had a dragon to take Sharra's son and heir hostage.

19 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If the Hightowers had killed them both it would have been all over.

If only...

[The Wolves]

12 hours ago, James West said:

I can already tell the op is baiting for anti-Targaryen comments.  He or she will get no such from me.  

The Targaryens were better in every way compared to the "Great" Houses of Westeros.  They had a vision to unite the realm and during their dynastic rule, made and passed laws which improved the lives of the commoners.  The commoners and the majority of Houses below the "Great" Houses benefitted tremendously from Targaryen rule.  The only losers were the "Great" Houses who could no longer do as they pleased.  But since there are only seven of them now, it is right to say the majority of the people were better under the central rule of the Targaryens.  

I’m actually a huge Targaryen fan. I just made this thread because I wanted to remind people that all these lords and ladies are the same. The Targaryens are no better or worse than any other highborn lord with power. 
 

And I’m all for Dany reclaiming that ugly throne. 

[Lord Varys]

4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I don't think they wanted to take such a risk or invite retribution, because Visenya showed how easy it was with someone who had a dragon to take Sharra's son and heir hostage.

Only because Ronnel Arryn was stupid enough not to realize that the dragon lady out in the yard was actually an enemy (in part perhaps because his mother failed to explain their situation to him). Just because a dragon sits in a castle yard doesn't mean he holds the king of that castle hostage. And Visenya Targaryen could have easily been taken out by the Arryn archers and men-at-arms both while still sitting astride Vhagar ... and even more easily once she had moved close enough to the gates to actually talk to Queen Sharra.

4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

If only...

Well, this is an 'If only...' of the kind of Hitler and Göring paying George V and Churchill a visit with some bombers ... and they then decide to let both of them go for 'reasons' after they had some talks. The very moment Maegor and Visenya actually dismounted their dragons and talked to Lord Hightower, etc. they were in their power. Their dragons could not help them if they were murdered or tortured inside the Hightower. They could not even break them out if they had been thrown into the dungeon.

The whole narrative there would have made much more sense if the text had stated that, say, only Visenya had landed in the city to treat with Lord Hightower while Maegor and Balerion remained in the air until everything was safe. After all, you don't get memos on dragonback in the air, so they had no clue that the High Septon had suddenly died, etc. The only reason given for them actually landing in Oldtown is that the Hightowers were flying the Targaryen banner - which everybody trying to lure them into a trap would raise, too.

But even a scenario where either Visenya or Maegor landed in the city while the other remained in the air wouldn't save them from a trap if they were determined. Eventually Maegor would have to land and there would be a celebration, a swearing of fealty, judgments, etc. That would be the moment where the sadistic tyrant and his crone mother could be put down. Now, perhaps we could imagine a scenario where only Maegor lands and his mother flies away without touching the ground, but that is not what happened, so it is a moot consideration. And even then the Hightowers could go with Maegor being imprisoned, forcing Visenya to stay her dragon and not burn Oldtown. And then they could wait until the crone died of fear, sickness, and old age (which she did, barely a year later).

In fact, now that I'm writing this it is actually quite ridiculous that Maegor alone and his aging, ailing mother could actually have pushed back the Faith Militant. Queen Alysanne could no longer ride Silvering seven years before her death - but Visenya could burn or threaten to burn entire castles in her seventies a year before her death? That's not very likely - especially the stunts she supposedly pulled off in the Riverlands. I think this whole example - Maegor and Visenya defeating the Faith and the Hightowers - is the example that shows how necessary another adult Targaryen dragonrider would have been at that time. A younger son or daughter of the Conqueror, say, legitimate or illegitimate, who sided with Maegor during the war against the Faith and whose control of another dragon helped them look more vital than Maegor and his old mother would have been.

The only way Maegor and Visenya could really be sure that they were not walking into a trap at Oldtown would have been if they had a loyal army outside the walls whose presence would ensure that the Hightowers and their people would not dare to move against the dragons and their riders after they landed inside the walls.

[sweetsunray]

On 2/5/2023 at 7:37 PM, James Arryn said:

Don’t see what you expected Sharra Arryn to do in that circumstance. Remember that the Field of Fire might not even be the most famed dragon attack in Aegon’s Conquest, but rather Harrenhal. Harrenhal changed how Argilac fought the Targs. 

Which may have been a mistake, if the castle is surrounded by a magical ward, which Harrenhal wasn't. Not sure whether the ward could have protected against dragonfire, but it seems likely that dragons could not have passed the ward, just like they cannot pass over the Wall.