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Jon Snow, the Coldheart


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1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Please give a source so I can read it as well

Maybe try reading A Song of Ice and Fire.

I especially recommend A Storm of Swords and A Dance with Dragons, which portray the exact opposite of literally everything you claimed.

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3 minutes ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

Maybe try reading A Song of Ice and Fire.

I especially recommend A Storm of Swords and A Dance with Dragons, which portray the exact opposite of literally everything you claimed.

Lol, maybe try backing up your nonsensical claims that are straight out of fanfiction written by some Dany fan?

She even orders the murder of children 12 and above.

Quote

"Unsullied!" Dany galloped before them, her silver-gold braid flying behind her, her bell chiming with every stride. "Slay the Good Masters, slay the soldiers, slay every man who wears a tokar or holds a whip, but harm no child under twelve, and strike the chains off every slave you see." She raised the harpy's fingers in the air . . . and then she flung the scourge aside. "Freedom!" she sang out. "Dracarys! Dracarys!"

 

 

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On 2/4/2023 at 10:49 PM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Some talk farther down the forum are trashing the loyal steward of the Nights Watch, Bowen Marsh.  The attacks are not fair.  Marsh was not an ambitious man.  He was not looking for political advancement or personal material gain.  He and his Brothers assassinated Lord Commander Jon Snow because they had a duty to.  Jon Snow put them all in danger.  They needed to end his disastrous leadership before more damage is done. 

I found this very interesting debate on Reddit.  I like what the user Feldman had to say.

 

 

 

"His vows are clear, and the mission of the Watch is clear. He has to defend the Wall, not use his position in the Watch to remove his family's enemies. He's not even supposed to have a family anymore, other than his brothers in black."

Jon was abusing his position to fight for the Starks.  Bowen had every right to remove Jon. 

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20 minutes ago, Barbrey Dustin said:

"His vows are clear, and the mission of the Watch is clear. He has to defend the Wall, not use his position in the Watch to remove his family's enemies. He's not even supposed to have a family anymore, other than his brothers in black."

Jon was abusing his position to fight for the Starks.  Bowen had every right to remove Jon. 

No he didn’t and no he wasn’t.

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27 minutes ago, Barbrey Dustin said:

"His vows are clear, and the mission of the Watch is clear. He has to defend the Wall,

Which is what he was doing since Ramsay was coming to attack the Wall.

27 minutes ago, Barbrey Dustin said:

Jon was abusing his position to fight for the Starks.

No he wasn't.

27 minutes ago, Barbrey Dustin said:

Bowen had every right to remove Jon. 

No he didn't.

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If these people spent one tenth of the energy they expend on defending Walder Frey, Roose Bolton, Tywin Lannister, Janos Slynt, Bowen Marsh, et al. on (re)reading the text and acknowledging other posters' well-reasoned responses and refutations, we could actually have productive conversations even if we disagreed.

But, of course, I am aware that they most likely aren't interested in such.

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1 minute ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

If these people spent one tenth of the energy they expend on defending Walder Frey, Roose Bolton, Tywin Lannister, Janos Slynt, Bowen Marsh, et al. on (re)reading the text and acknowledging other posters' well-reasoned responses and refutations, we could actually have productive conversations even if we disagreed.

But, of course, I am aware that they most likely aren't interested in such.

There's zero interest from this crowd to engage in meaningful and interesting discussions, zero. That's why they only quote each other (or themselves) and keep repeating the same asinine and disproved points, even if that means they have to defend the likes of Ramsay, Slynt, etc. 

What amazes me the most is that they'd rather come across as being seriously incapable of basic understanding of the text than concede that maybe there's more to the text than what they want to force into it. 

At this point the main reason I want TWoW out is to see this circle jerk melt away never to be seen again b/c it's gonna be mighty hard for them to keep spewing their inane hatred then. 

 

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5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

At this point the main reason I want TWoW out is to see this circle jerk melt away never to be seen again b/c it's gonna be mighty hard for them to keep spewing their inane hatred then. 

I'm actually worried that this might embolden them. Obviously their insane "theories" will be shredded completely, but TWoW will see every character go darker and probably reach their lowest points, and they might try to reframe this as vindication. We can only hope that ADoS follows quickly afterwards, should this be true.

As usual, you were spot-on with your explanation. :agree:

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1 minute ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

I'm actually worried that this might embolden them. Obviously their insane "theories" will be shredded completely, but TWoW will see every character go darker and probably reach their lowest points, and they might try to reframe this as vindication. We can only hope that ADoS follows quickly afterwards, should this be true.

As usual, you were spot-on with your explanation. /cdn-cgi/mirage/073e6d663f42facc8264e05ac55c4d71c69240a58b039a6ee335bc8a8567a1bf/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_agree.gif

I'm not sure that's going to work... but we shall see. 

As I said to a friend elsewhere, I wish this gang would put the same energy, time and effort they put into spewing hatred and changing their usernames and quoting each other into reading the books and trying to understand the story... 

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Just now, kissdbyfire said:

I'm not sure that's going to work... but we shall see. 

As I said to a friend elsewhere, I wish this gang would put the same energy, time and effort they put into spewing hatred and changing their usernames and quoting each other into reading the books and trying to understand the story... 

I hope it doesn't work! But on the bright side, we would have a lot to discuss with a new book, so they'll probably just get lost in the crowd as people rightfully ignore them. 

I think they just find it more entertaining to spew hatred than to revisit the story, which unfortunately accounts for some bigoted behavior in more serious contexts in the real world as well. 

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6 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

At this point the main reason I want TWoW out is to see this circle jerk melt away never to be seen again b/c it's gonna be mighty hard for them to keep spewing their inane hatred then. 

They will be drowned out by the returning posters and new posters coming to the site who want to discuss the books, not diss and cuss certain characters.  

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If ever a murder can be considered a heroic act, it is Bowen Marsh and his men stabbing Jon Snow.  This won't prevent all of the bad things happening due to Jon's actions but it will avoid the Night's Watch from becoming an enemy of the Boltons.  It is not about honor.  It keeps the Night's Watch from becoming the law-breaker and limits the guilt to just Jon Snow.  All of the guilt is on top of Jon's narrow shoulders.  

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1 hour ago, Darth Sidious said:

Jon’s support group is busy attacking Bowen Marsh again. It’s unfortunate because Bowen only killed Jon to stop the war on the Boltons. It wasn’t personal.  

Bowen's Support group is busy attacking Jon Snow again. It's unfortunate because Jon was only trying to defend humanity when he was stabbed. It wasn't personal, Marsh was just a bigot and an idiot.

Edited by Craving Peaches
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Okay, Bowen Marsh and the other guys had to have questioned Jon's competence and continued ability to lead the Night's Watch.  Understandable given Jon's decisions with regards to the Wildlings and aligning himself with the rebel lord Stannis.  But those concerns were not the reasons for the assassination.  Jon was going to lead his savages to war against Ramsay Bolton.  That and only that was the reason for his assassination.  And Bowen Marsh was right to do it.  

Assassinating your leader is illegal.  It is an act of treason.  That is why Bowen Marsh and Jaime Lannister are often compared.  They compare favorably in many ways.  They were serving men who they have to remove from power before the situation goes out of control.  Jon was out of control and Bowen did what he did to stop him.  Jon was guilty of treason already for sparing Mance and sending him to Arya.  

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4 minutes ago, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes said:

Okay, Bowen Marsh and the other guys had to have questioned Jon's competence and continued ability to lead the Night's Watch.  Understandable given Jon's decisions with regards to the Wildlings and aligning himself with the rebel lord Stannis.  But those concerns were not the reasons for the assassination.  Jon was going to lead his savages to war against Ramsay Bolton.  That and only that was the reason for his assassination.  And Bowen Marsh was right to do it.  

Assassinating your leader is illegal.  It is an act of treason.  That is why Bowen Marsh and Jaime Lannister are often compared.  They compare favorably in many ways.  They were serving men who they have to remove from power before the situation goes out of control.  Jon was out of control and Bowen did what he did to stop him.  Jon was guilty of treason already for sparing Mance and sending him to Arya.  

:dunce: Take my dude

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8 minutes ago, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes said:

Okay, Bowen Marsh and the other guys had to have questioned Jon's competence and continued ability to lead the Night's Watch.  Understandable given Jon's decisions with regards to the Wildlings and aligning himself with the rebel lord Stannis.  But those concerns were not the reasons for the assassination.  Jon was going to lead his savages to war against Ramsay Bolton.  That and only that was the reason for his assassination.  And Bowen Marsh was right to do it.  

Assassinating your leader is illegal.  It is an act of treason.  That is why Bowen Marsh and Jaime Lannister are often compared.  They compare favorably in many ways.  They were serving men who they have to remove from power before the situation goes out of control.  Jon was out of control and Bowen did what he did to stop him.  Jon was guilty of treason already for sparing Mance and sending him to Arya.  

I know this is off topic, but may I ask why your profile picture is a bare, hairless torso? I'm really curious, does it have something to do with the film 'Gentlemen Prefer Blondes'?

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