Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Rondo said: Jon's agents successfully took "Arya" out of Winterfell. That is what made Ramsay angry. The covert operation that got "Arya" out was inappropriate for men of the Night's Watch. Probably. But I’d give him a pass since said noble was a sadist who enjoys torturing people for fun. Don’t act like that’s why Marsh stabbed him, the accusation, which is all it was to the NW at that point, was an excuse. Marsh and his ilk are simply bigoted pieces of shit who hated wildlings, and don’t care about aiding the Others, as long as they don’t have to help wildings SeanF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 4 hours ago, Rondo said: Jon's agents successfully took "Arya" out of Winterfell. That is what made Ramsay angry. The covert operation that got "Arya" out was inappropriate for men of the Night's Watch. Jon didn't send anyone to take Arya from Winterfell, he sent them to pick her up from the Wilderness. And this doesn't change anything because Ramsay is still coming to kill Bowen because Bowen can't hand over the hostages either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roswell Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 If Jon had only minded the business of the NW instead of sending Mace and the spearwives to get his sister away from her husband. None of the troubles that came later would have happened. We should and we do blame Jon Snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, Roswell said: If Jon had only minded the business of the NW instead of sending Mace and the spearwives to get his sister away from her husband. None of the troubles that came later would have happened. We should and we do blame Jon Snow. Mace is in King’s Landing. Mance was sent to intercept a grey girl on a dying horse, fleeing from a marriage - to a known flayer, rapist and murderer I might add as a reminder for those who haven’t read the books or didn’t understand what they’ve read. What do you mean by “the business of the Night’s Watch”? Do you mean manning the abandoned castles so they’ll be better prepared for the upcoming attack from the Others and wights? Or do you perhaps mean saving as many as he possibly can, not only to protect the realms of men but also to keep thousands from being wightified and added to the army of the dead? Maybe we’re talking about securing a loan from the Iron Bank so that the Watch and free folk can keep themselves fed during winter? Please clarify what exactly you mean by “the business of the Night’s Watch” b/c one of us is clearly very confused about what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 51 minutes ago, Roswell said: We should and we do blame Jon Snow. We should not and do not blame Jon Snow. Those of us who actually read the text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 On 3/8/2023 at 2:12 AM, Craving Peaches said: Jon didn't send anyone to take Arya from Winterfell, he sent them to pick her up from the Wilderness. And this doesn't change anything because Ramsay is still coming to kill Bowen because Bowen can't hand over the hostages either. All the trick with the wildling women meant he expected Mance might need to enter Winterfell illegally to get Arya. Mance was operating under the orders of his lord commander. Jon was responsible for that mission. Mance broke guest rights when they killed Roose Bolton's people. You are right in that none of this matters now because Jon is dead but his bad deeds will have a ripple effect that will ruin the Night's Watch. It was all his fault though. Bowen will do his best to sort things out but Jon created a situation where it will be next to impossible to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Rondo said: All the trick with the wildling women meant he expected Mance might need to enter Winterfell illegally to get Arya. Mance was operating under the orders of his lord commander. Jon was responsible for that mission. Mance broke guest rights when they killed Roose Bolton's people. Is that why Jon keeps thinking about Mance and where he is and why he isn’t back? I was wondering if you could provide a quote showing where you got this info? Or at least point me to where in the books I’d be able to find any textual support for this? Or is this just something you know because you’ve seen it in a crystal ball or something? 1 minute ago, Rondo said: You are right in that none of this matters now because Jon is dead but his bad deeds will have a ripple effect that will ruin the Night's Watch. It was all his fault though. Bowen will do his best to sort things out but Jon created a situation where it will be next to impossible to do so. Some unwanted advice: don’t waste your time thinking about what Marsh will do, b/c he won’t do anything other than die. You’re welcome. Craving Peaches and SeanF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 11 minutes ago, Rondo said: All the trick with the wildling women meant he expected Mance might need to enter Winterfell illegally to get Arya. Mance was operating under the orders of his lord commander. Jon was responsible for that mission. Mance broke guest rights when they killed Roose Bolton's people. You are right in that none of this matters now because Jon is dead but his bad deeds will have a ripple effect that will ruin the Night's Watch. It was all his fault though. Bowen will do his best to sort things out but Jon created a situation where it will be next to impossible to do so. The Boltons lost those privileges when they committed regicide and treason. kissdbyfire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 49 minutes ago, Rondo said: he expected Mance might need to enter Winterfell illegally to get Arya. Quote please? 50 minutes ago, Rondo said: Jon was responsible for that mission. Jon was responsible for a mission to rescue Arya from Long Lake, not whatever Mance decided to do at Winterfell, unless you can provide quotes to the contrary. 51 minutes ago, Rondo said: Bowen will do his best to sort things out but Jon created a situation where it will be next to impossible to do so. Bowen can do his best to sort things out by committing suicide before his skull is bashed in by Wun Wun. SeanF and kissdbyfire 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ Bloodraven Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 On 3/16/2023 at 12:04 PM, Rondo said: Bowen will do his best to sort things out but Jon created a situation where it will be next to impossible to do so. You think Bowen Marsh is going to be capable of the leadership of the entire Night's Watch to parlay with Stannis, the Wildlings, or defeat the dead? He just killed the rightfully elected Lord Commander, I don't understand this thinking at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 16 minutes ago, GZ Bloodraven said: You think Bowen Marsh is going to be capable of the leadership of the entire Night's Watch to parlay with Stannis, the Wildlings, or defeat the dead? He just killed the rightfully elected Lord Commander, I don't understand this thinking at all. I hate Jon -> anyone who opposes Jon is right -> Bowen Marsh opposed Jon more than anyone - Bowen is a genius Craving Peaches 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ Bloodraven Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 Just now, Alester Florent said: I hate Jon -> anyone who opposes Jon is right -> Bowen Marsh opposed Jon more than anyone - Bowen is a genius So the axiom for the argument is not in empathy or understanding (the point of the series), but in hatred. Jesus christ I hope George doesn't read people's analysis of his characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, GZ Bloodraven said: So the axiom for the argument is not in empathy or understanding (the point of the series), but in hatred. Jesus christ I hope George doesn't read people's analysis of his characters. Yeah, it's pretty pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Fenimore Cooper XXII Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 On 2/4/2023 at 10:49 PM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said: Some talk farther down the forum are trashing the loyal steward of the Nights Watch, Bowen Marsh. The attacks are not fair. Marsh was not an ambitious man. He was not looking for political advancement or personal material gain. He and his Brothers assassinated Lord Commander Jon Snow because they had a duty to. Jon Snow put them all in danger. They needed to end his disastrous leadership before more damage is done. I found this very interesting debate on Reddit. I like what the user Feldman had to say. Jon's brief time commanding the Night's Watch has been a miserable failure. The Watch is not divided and will not be able to do its job. Thanks to Jon choosing to pick a fight with House Bolton. Bowen Marsh was doing damage control. The stabbing of Jon Snow was Bowen's desperate try to stop Jon from worsening the situation with Ramsay. There will be no peace, no negotiation, with the Boltons while Jon was alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 2 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: Jon's brief time commanding the Night's Watch has been a miserable failure. The Watch is not divided and will not be able to do its job. Thanks to Jon choosing to pick a fight with House Bolton. Bowen Marsh was doing damage control. The stabbing of Jon Snow was Bowen's desperate try to stop Jon from worsening the situation with Ramsay. There will be no peace, no negotiation, with the Boltons while Jon was alive. Much like Daenerys time in Slaver’s Bay has been an abject failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 3 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: There will be no peace, no negotiation, with the Boltons while Jon was alive. And that's not going to change now that Jon's dead because they still don't have all the hostages Ramsay demanded... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 49 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: And that's not going to change now that Jon's dead because they still don't have all the hostages Ramsay demanded... And all of the North hates the Boltons. Craving Peaches 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 4 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: There will be no peace, no negotiation, with the Boltons while Jon was alive. And, that’s a bad thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Stonehearts Simp Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, SeanF said: And, that’s a bad thing? To psychopaths it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James West Posted April 4, 2023 Share Posted April 4, 2023 On 2/4/2023 at 10:49 PM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said: Some talk farther down the forum are trashing the loyal steward of the Nights Watch, Bowen Marsh. The attacks are not fair. Marsh was not an ambitious man. He was not looking for political advancement or personal material gain. He and his Brothers assassinated Lord Commander Jon Snow because they had a duty to. Jon Snow put them all in danger. They needed to end his disastrous leadership before more damage is done. I found this very interesting debate on Reddit. I like what the user Feldman had to say. The discussion has meandered from the main topic. Jon got the Night's Watch involved in a conflict with the Boltons over Arya. It was illegal to do it. Jon was going to attack the Boltons. Those are the reasons why Bowen Marsh cancelled Jon Snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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