U.K Politics: Revenge of the Truss.

[Week]

7 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Out of interest, how many people do you think this describes? As a percentage of the country? Why does a politically astute person like Sturgeon feel the need to watch her language when asked questions like this? Are they a significant voter base?

The majority of the furor is coming from one side screeching bad faith arguments then reporting on how loud their screeching is and finally talking about how divisive an issue is with only their screeching as evidence:

1 hour ago, Week said:

Astroterf'd outrage on culture issues funded by the right and elevated by right-wing "media" (and the useless both-sidesism of old media). A self-fulfilling biased rhetoric that takes all the air out of the room where those breathless repeating of nonsense and will then screech about how controversial and important the issue is by pointing to their own screeching as evidence. "People are really riled up by this "issue" that I will NOT stop screeching about despite knowing very little about it and caring even less for the people involved."

It is so obviously a means to an end -- simply listening and having actual engagement with experts (both medical and people with lived experience) would, and does, bridge gaps and fill in the yawning chasm of ignorance on display by the screechers. That isn't the goal for them though.

 

[Heartofice]

17 minutes ago, Week said:

The majority of the furor is coming from one side screeching bad faith arguments then reporting on how loud their screeching is and finally talking about how divisive an issue is with only their screeching as evidence:

 

I guess if you ignore all the screeching about how anyone who disagrees with them  is a Nazi and wants Trans people to die then you might think this, and it seems you do ignore this.. so that explains a lot. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

13 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

But thanks for staying vigilant,

HOI has repeatedly used they/them pronouns to refer to a rape survivor who was a trans woman.

The use of they isn’t a subtle attempt of misgendering after a while.

13 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Out of interest, how many people do you think this describes?

I think a significant part but not overwhelming majority.

how many people do you think would grow outraged at someone not referring to trans women as a.) mentally ill men;b.) predatory men enough for it have any meaningful impact on their vote?

13 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Why does a politically astute person like Sturgeon feel the need to watch her language when asked questions like this?

Do you think her answer was morally wrong?

 

 

[Heartofice]

5 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

HOI has repeatedly used they/them pronouns to refer to a rape survivor who was trans woman.

Is Isla Bryson a woman?

[Denvek]

8 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Is Isla Bryson a woman?

Yes

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Is Isla Bryson a woman?

Far as I know yes.
Why do you hate trans women so much you’d misgender even rape victims with they/them pronouns?

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, Week said:

The majority of the furor is coming from one side screeching bad faith arguments then reporting on how loud their screeching is and finally talking about how divisive an issue is with only their screeching as evidence:

 

Sigh, it’s mostly conservative men pretending their bigotry against x marginalized group is necessary to protect women and children all in hopes to justify more bigoted attacks  against other groups they hate(feminists, gender nonconformists, queer folk in general, racial minorities).

[Derfel Cadarn]

Welcome to the timeline where Michael Heseltine is the voice of reason

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 hours ago, Spockydog said:

 

 

Remember when those types used to screech on how we couldn’t let brown immigrants because bigotry against the lgbtq community?

There’s a lot less of that now—

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 hours ago, Week said:

The majority of the furor is coming from one side screeching bad faith arguments then reporting on how loud their screeching is and finally talking about how divisive an issue is with only their screeching as evidence:

 

Conservative Deputy Chairman Lee Anderson, who was promoted by Rishi Sunak last week, said the Tories would likely put a 'mix of culture wars and trans debate' at the heart of its general election offer

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Welcome to the timeline where Michael Heseltine is the voice of reason

 

Ugh. Those hosts are dreadful.

I'm no Tory, but credit where credit is due, two people who have consistently offered the most lucid and sensible objections to Brexit have been Michael Heseltine and John Major. Also Ciaran the van driver, though I don't know his political affiliation.

Could you imagine Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage giving a speech like this?  

 

[Derfel Cadarn]

 

She also takes time to thank her satirist.

 

[karaddin]

7 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I guess if you ignore all the screeching about how anyone who disagrees with them  is a Nazi and wants Trans people to die then you might think this, and it seems you do ignore this.. so that explains a lot. 

How's this for responding to the explicit meaning of what you say: a trans teenager was murdered last week in your county and here you are acting like the amount of people that want us dead is negligible. This is gaslighting bullshit.

[BigFatCoward]

3 hours ago, karaddin said:

How's this for responding to the explicit meaning of what you say: a trans teenager was murdered last week in your county and here you are acting like the amount of people that want us dead is negligible. This is gaslighting bullshit.

Its not actually confirmed yet that the fact they were trans had anything to do with the murder.

Its certainly possible, but teenagers get killed all too frequently for many reasons (though mostly it's for no reason). 

[karaddin]

5 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Its not actually confirmed yet that the fact they were trans had anything to do with the murder.

Its certainly possible, but teenagers get killed all too frequently for many reasons (though mostly it's for no reason). 

Even if this particular case turns out to have a different motive, this initial news will still reasonably contribute to a minority group fearing for their physical safety when those hate crimes do happen and there's a large scale political campaign demonizing them. I'm speaking to the fear being reasonable and stoked by this.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

11 hours ago, Spockydog said:

 

 

Can we just take minute here to fully appreciate the concept of Neo-Nazi scooter club.

[Varysblackfyre321]

5 hours ago, karaddin said:

and here you are acting like the amount of people that want us dead is negligible. This is gaslighting bullshit.

Its necessary to facilitate the crackdown on trans rights.

I expect within the next year as economic conditions worsen to see serious contemplation by the tories towards banning any gender affirmative treatment for minors, raising the age to even seek a GRC or any medical transitioning in general(25), banning public educators from “instructing” on gender identity(trans people) which can take the form of having books that refrence trans people

some members of this board will cry people would be Godwin lawing by saying the people pushing for such changes want trans people dead or too miserable to exist in public.

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

certainly possible, but teenagers get killed all too frequently for many reasons (though mostly it's for no reason). 

True it’s important to not prematurely latch any narrative on a proceeding case this early.

[mormont]

3 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Can we just take minute here to fully appreciate the concept of Neo-Nazi scooter club.

I mean, you're kidding, but my cousin was a mod. His scooter club were scary.

[Gaston de Foix]

I'll be honest, I haven't been paying attention to trans issues.  I'm looking to be informed rather than participate in a row.  So, a question.  What's the rebuttal to this article?

 https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/16/opinion/jk-rowling-transphobia.html

There are some curious debate maneuvers like reading JKR's novels rather than her twitter posts that I sense are sophistical.  And the argument equating JKR with Rushdie doesn't really move me.  Rushdie has been in deadly danger for most of his life, and now its materialized.  But I've always liked her (and her politics), and this seems so reasonable...

[BigFatCoward]

38 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I'll be honest, I haven't been paying attention to trans issues.  I'm looking to be informed rather than participate in a row.  So, a question.  What's the rebuttal to this article?

 https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/16/opinion/jk-rowling-transphobia.html

There are some curious debate maneuvers like reading JKR's novels rather than her twitter posts that I sense are sophistical.  And the argument equating JKR with Rushdie doesn't really move me.  Rushdie has been in deadly danger for most of his life, and now its materialized.  But I've always liked her (and her politics), and this seems so reasonable...

Like all things nowadays, there is almost no nuance.

Pro Rowling people see no harm in her unnecessarily inflammatory statements.

Anti Rowling people fly off the handle at even her most trivial and reasonable positions (not that I necessarily agree with, but there used to be a time when you could disagree with someone without being a total dick about it). 

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