Heartofice Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 minute ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: You will never forgive her for not misgendering a trans woman will you? She said ‘that person is a rapist’ so unless rapist is a new gender I don’t know what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 It's fair to say that there are internal divisions in the SNP and that those are a big part of Sturgeon's decision: and that the trans issue is one vector along which that divide does run, along with the path forward to independence (always, and forever, the biggest issue in the party and don't let anyone tell you otherwise) and other social and economic issues. The SNP are mostly to the left of Labour but they're also a broader church even than the major UK parties. I'll quote a friend of mine (lifelong Labour voter from London, if that matters): Quote It's interesting to me that when women political leaders do the right things on hard political issues they often end up resigning but when male politicians do the wrong things continually they keep their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 1 minute ago, Heartofice said: She said ‘that person is a rapist’ so unless rapist is a new gender I don’t know what you mean. You’re mad at her for calling a rapist a rapist? I’m sorry I don’t know how this tracks from noting your rage at Sturgeon for not misgendering a trans woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 11 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: You’re mad at her for calling a rapist a rapist? I’m sorry I don’t know how this tracks from noting your rage at Sturgeon for not misgendering a trans woman. I’m not mad at her at all. I want to thank her for doing so much to publicly demonstrate flaws of self ID as a concept, and ultimately it’s helped to bring her down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Astroterf'd outrage on culture issues funded by the right and elevated by right-wing "media" (and the useless both-sidesism of old media). A self-fulfilling biased rhetoric that takes all the air out of the room where those breathless repeating of nonsense and will then screech about how controversial and important the issue is by pointing to their own screeching as evidence. "People are really riled up by this "issue" that I will NOT stop screeching about despite knowing very little about it and caring even less for the people involved." It is so obviously a means to an end -- simply listening and having actual engagement with experts (both medical and people with lived experience) would, and does, bridge gaps and fill in the yawning chasm of ignorance on display by the screechers. That isn't the goal for them though. Poobah, A wilding, Prince of the North and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 minute ago, Week said: Astroterf'd outrage on culture issues funded by the right and elevated by right-wing "media" (and the useless both-sidesism of old media). A self-fulfilling biased rhetoric that takes all the air out of the room where those breathless repeating of nonsense and will then screech about how controversial and important the issue is by pointing to their own screeching as evidence. "People are really riled up by this "issue" that I will NOT stop screeching about despite knowing very little about it and caring even less for the people involved." It is so obviously a means to an end -- simply listening and having actual engagement with experts (both medical and people with lived experience) would, and does, bridge gaps and fill in the yawning chasm of ignorance on display by the screechers. That isn't the goal for them though. Of all the people using trans people as a ‘means to an end’, Sturgeon would be top of that list. Week 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 27 minutes ago, Week said: Astroterf'd outrage on culture issues funded by the right and elevated by right-wing "media" (and the useless both-sidesism of old media). A self-fulfilling biased rhetoric that takes all the air out of the room where those breathless repeating of nonsense and will then screech about how controversial and important the issue is by pointing to their own screeching as evidence. "People are really riled up by this "issue" that I will NOT stop screeching about despite knowing very little about it and caring even less for the people involved." It is so obviously a means to an end -- simply listening and having actual engagement with experts (both medical and people with lived experience) would, and does, bridge gaps and fill in the yawning chasm of ignorance on display by the screechers. That isn't the goal for them though. Anyone who can't talk enough about Isla Bryson but won't talk at all about what Brianna Ghey's death certificate will have on it, has nothing of merit to say on trans self-ID laws. Week, Which Tyler, Poobah and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 5 minutes ago, mormont said: Anyone who can't talk enough about Isla Bryson but won't talk at all about what Brianna Ghey's death certificate will have on it, has nothing of merit to say on trans self-ID laws. Not to mention that Brianna was bullied for being trans and that may have been why her murderers (teenaged boy and girl) targeted her. Riled up by the right-wing sites and press and politicians demonising the trans community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 46 minutes ago, Heartofice said: want to thank her for doing so much to publicly demonstrate flaws of self ID as a concept, so if a trans woman whose co-worker asks you to refer to her with he/him/they pronouns would you immediately(if legally allowed) demand to see their medical records first before you entertain the notion of not calling her a man? Or would you act like a decent human being and try to correcting gender her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 38 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Of all the people using trans people as a ‘means to an end’, Sturgeon would be top of that list. You never did answer whether or not you’d prefer 16 year old trans boys being referred to with she/her pronouns by those around them. For their own good im sure lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 2 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: so if a trans woman whose co-worker asks you to refer to her with he/him/they pronouns would you immediately(if legally allowed) demand to see their medical records first before you entertain the notion of not calling her a man? Or would you act like a decent human being and try to correcting gender her? I would refer to them by the pronouns they wished me to. I think you are getting confused as to the difference between using the pronouns someone asks for and believing that someone can LITERALLY change their sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 8 minutes ago, Heartofice said: I would refer to them by the pronouns they wished me to. Omg lol dude you can’t even help misgendering a trans woman in a hypothetical. 8 minutes ago, Heartofice said: think you are getting confused as to the difference between using the pronouns someone asks f Which is all Sturgeon did really to get backlash—she referred to a trans woman with she/her pronouns when condemning said trans woman as a rapist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Just now, Varysblackfyre321 said: Which is all Sturgeon did really to get backlash—she referred to a trans woman with she/her pronouns when condemning said trans woman as a rapist. No, she was asked whether Bryson was a woman. She declined to answer the question, instead dodging it by saying 'rapist' instead. She knew that the answer she wanted to give didn't make any sense and wasn't true and would expose the ridiculousness of her case, which is why she got so flustered and fumbled so often during that interview and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 21 minutes ago, Heartofice said: No, she was asked whether Bryson was a woman Unfortunately she tried compromising with militant transphobes who will take two answers in regards to what trans women are: a; mentally ill men who people whose existence must be viewed as sad and pitiable; B degenerate men who should be kept away from women and children. I must ask you would you prefer 16 year old trans boys to be referred to with she/her pronouns by those around them. I understand you are no under prerogative to answer any question. But I do think it’s rather telling to the level of your disgust to the existence of trans people that you can’t even feign a weak no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 ants and Deadlines? What Deadlines? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, mormont said: Brianna Ghey's death certificate will have on it, has nothing of merit to say on trans self-ID laws. But don’t you know the irreparable damage not being misgendered in every possible instance may have on her future mental-being?/s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 4 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Unfortunately she tried compromising with militant transphobes who will take two answers in regards to what trans women are: a; mentally ill men who people whose existence must be viewed as sad and pitiable; B degenerate men who should be kept away from women and children. Its sad you seem to think this but it shows how out of touch and in your own echo chamber you are. 5 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: must ask you would you prefer 16 year old trans boys to be referred to with she/her pronouns by those around them. As stated numerous times, to the point of exhaustion, I have no issue referring to people by the pronouns which they wish to be referred to. I'm not sure why you think this is a productive line of attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 38 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Omg lol dude you can’t even help misgendering a trans woman in a hypothetical. You said “whose co-worker asked you to refer to her with he/him/they pronouns” … did you mean “who is a co-worker”? If your example doesn’t make sense, defaulting to ‘them’ is an entirely legitimate way of talking. But thanks for staying vigilant, someone will be along to relieve you shortly. 6 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Unfortunately she tried compromising with militant transphobes Out of interest, how many people do you think this describes? As a percentage of the country? Why does a politically astute person like Sturgeon feel the need to watch her language when asked questions like this? Are they a significant voter base? Raja 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 Just now, Heartofice said: Its sad you seem to think this It’s sad how you can’t make a compelling argument on how I’m wrong. just feign Incredulity. 2 minutes ago, Heartofice said: I have no issue referring to people by the pronouns which they wish to be referred to. Lol but no though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 14 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Deadlines? What Deadlines? and ants 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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