U.K Politics: Revenge of the Truss.

[Gaston de Foix]

Coming on here and surprised not to see people feeling the excitement that Kemi has been moved to business and Walker is party chair.  What gives folks?  Deckchairs on the Titanic have rarely been re-arranged with as much grace. 

There are actually interesting things to talk about the Sunak reshuffle, principally whether his committed strategy of appeasement (e.g., making the MP who compared his government to the Titanic the Vice-Chair of the Party) makes strategic sense as a matter of politics. 

On the one hand, the greatest threat to any Tory PM has always been his own party (See e.g., Thatcher, Major, Cameron, May, Johnson and Truss). 

On the other, Sunak has done nothing to counteract the image of weakness and inexperience, which is a potent one in the Westminster village and is being transmitted continuously throughout the country.  He might well deliver on his five pledges and still remain exactly where he is in the polls because the country will punish him for how shit things are but not reward him for making them better.  Meanwhile Dominic Raab, with 24 bullying allegations against him, limps on... 

[James Arryn]

6 hours ago, ants said:

What ideas? The idea that unless you've personal cause not to, you should grant the simple politeness of referring to people with the gender they prefer? I have no concern with the rape victim, who obviously has a very personal and painful relation with the individual, referring to them in any way they want. She has absolutely no need to be polite to her attacker.

You seem to be arguing that third parties such as yourself, Sturgeon and others should throw politeness out the window on the justification that the offender doesn't deserve it, while ignoring you're also then being impolite to everyone who is or supports trans people. So eager to insult one that you insult all, and then justify it on the crimes the offender has committed. 

If they are really lying about their gender, how on earth does that justify you and others being impolite to an entire group? How does calling them "her" damage you or the process in any way? It doesn't. It just shows that you're not really interested in people's individual desires, but your own. 

It’s another example of the ridiculous practice of overlooking the very real and current sufferings of entire groups of people because you can imagine scenarios where individuals might exploit the system in rare, isolated incidents. Premise being that until we design the first perfect human system in history to negate any theoretical loophole, we ought to just, lol, conserve the status quo and the real people doing the real suffering should just accept their lot. Fucking hell I’m tired of this shit, maybe most because the people doing this stuff seem to have no idea how fucking obvious their agenda and concerns/lack of concerns are. Apply their thinking to virtually any other system, and we’d have none. I cannot just imagine cis men raping cis men in prison, just as one example, we actually know it happens at frighteningly high rates; abolish prisons, do we hear conservatives chanting? Somehow not. 

[Raja]

15 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

It’s another example of the ridiculous practice of overlooking the very real and current sufferings of entire groups of people because you can imagine scenarios where individuals might exploit the system in rare, isolated incidents. Premise being that until we design the first perfect human system in history to negate any theoretical loophole, we ought to just, lol, conserve the status quo and the real people doing the real suffering should just accept their lot. Fucking hell I’m tired of this shit, maybe most because the people doing this stuff seem to have no idea how fucking obvious their agenda and concerns/lack of concerns are.

[Varysblackfyre321]

4 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Does this not happen in most cases though?  I'm pretty sure there are a very small number of very loud bigots making people think there is less acceptance of this position than there actually is in the real world. 

Obviously there will be variations within social groups and occupations etc, but generally do most people not just go 'fuck it, makes no difference to me either way', with the occasional lapse because they have known this person for years and its difficult to just flick a switch in your head overnight? 

True most people won’t put in the effort to be bigoted to trans people to risk confrontation especially if they(the trans person) passes.

Like if a person says hi my pronouns are x it’s easier and smoother to just respect that than idk demanding to see medical documents relating to their gender dysphhoria.

4 hours ago, karaddin said:

but who the fuck actually wants that drama at work?

You may get accused of pushing woke critical communist gender ideology on them.

 

 

[polishgenius]

48 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

especially if they(the trans person) passes.

 

The conversation should never ever be about 'passing', which is a bullshit concept anyway. 

 

50 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

You may get accused of pushing woke critical communist gender ideology on them.

 

 

To be honest I think this sort of comment trivialises what being part of a group facing cultural hostility is actually like. You might get accused of pushing woke critical communist gender ideology. For trans people it's about a lot more than that. 

[Fragile Bird]

I feel like I’ve fallen into a time warp from 15 or 20 years ago. Or longer.

[karaddin]

Workplace protections are pretty solid where I work, I'm pretty confident I wouldn't have suffered any official/management consequences for making a complaint, social ones were a possibility but an unlikely one - I had a better working relationship with most of my team than either of the two in question.

The thing is even if everything goes perfectly, that shit takes a bunch of time and even more stress and I don't actually want to get anyone in trouble - I want to do my job and go home. And I actually wanted to be somewhat involved in activism back then but still didn't want to deal with that. People aren't just waiting around for a gotcha excuse to report people they know for wrong think.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

 

[Pebble thats Stubby]

4 hours ago, karaddin said:

Workplace protections are pretty solid where I work, I'm pretty confident I wouldn't have suffered any official/management consequences for making a complaint, social ones were a possibility but an unlikely one - I had a better working relationship with most of my team than either of the two in question.

The thing is even if everything goes perfectly, that shit takes a bunch of time and even more stress and I don't actually want to get anyone in trouble - I want to do my job and go home. And I actually wanted to be somewhat involved in activism back then but still didn't want to deal with that. People aren't just waiting around for a gotcha excuse to report people they know for wrong think.

and just for the record (this is not aimed at Karaddin but some others), this is exactly why I've not reported on the many instances of sexual harassment in my place of work.  It takes a hell of a lot of effort to get results and its just not worth the stress.  or the fallout despite the official protections I would receive.

[Crixus]

2 hours ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

and just for the record (this is not aimed at Karaddin but some others), this is exactly why I've not reported on the many instances of sexual harassment in my place of work.  It takes a hell of a lot of effort to get results and its just not worth the stress.  or the fallout despite the official protections I would receive.

I was going to write something very similar. I consider myself a feminist and a confident person who stands up for herself - yet when I was harassed at work it took me weeks of agonising whilst I tried to decide what to do about it. There were complex feelings: anger (how dare he), uncertainty and shame (did I encourage this) and guilt (I keep talking about being a feminist and standing up for myself and yet I haven't done anything about this) etc. When I finally decided to complain, I did so anonymously and mainly because I felt I was obliged to do something after witnessing the same behaviour by that asshole toward much younger women. Suffice to say, it wasn't as cut and dried as it might seem. Basically, keyboard activism is far easier than in real life. 

Also, the consequences of complaining/calling out someone as a straight cis male are markedly different than they are for the rest of us. And no, I'm not saying straight cis men don't have problems, before I get accused of such  

[Derfel Cadarn]

Lib-Dem’a Tim Farron regarding “30p Lee’s” promotion (he’s a sacked former Labour Councillor who became a Tory MP)

 

[A wilding]

On the intersection of UK Politics and LGBT rights:

Broadcaster Sandi Toksvig has come out all guns blazing against the Church of England's recent fudge on gay marriage ("we will give it as much surreptitious blessing as we can without upsetting the right wingers or the foreign Anglican churches in deeply socially conservative countries where LGBT people are oppressed")

Toksvig has started a campaign to remove the bishops from the House of Lords. She has caused some entertaining pearl clutching by pointing out that only one other country in the world has unelected religious leaders in its parliament - Iran.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64561692

[A Horse Named Stranger]

8 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

 

How can Trussonomics win the argument, when Corbyn has already won it (by losing two elections).

 

[BigFatCoward]

16 minutes ago, A wilding said:

On the intersection of UK Politics and LGBT rights:

Broadcaster Sandi Toksvig has come out all guns blazing against the Church of England's recent fudge on gay marriage ("we will give it as much surreptitious blessing as we can without upsetting the right wingers or the foreign Anglican churches in deeply socially conservative countries where LGBT people are oppressed")

Toksvig has started a campaign to remove the bishops from the House of Lords. She has caused some entertaining pearl clutching by pointing out that only one other country in the world has unelected religious leaders in its parliament - Iran.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64561692

And, God is no longer going to be a man apparently. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

No, god is a horse. True story.

[Raja]

 

[Fragile Bird]

8 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

No, god is a horse. True story.

What??? God is an Englishman. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

On 2/7/2023 at 12:16 PM, polishgenius said:

The conversation should never ever be about 'passing',

I think you may be reading this part as prescriptive rather than descriptive statement 

On 2/7/2023 at 12:16 PM, polishgenius said:

which is a bullshit concept anyway. 

Genuinely asking why do you think that?  For me I see it used uncontroversially in many progressive circles when talking about people who’d normally be looked at as member of an oppressed group who typically could blend in as a member of a more socially accepted group in society.

On 2/7/2023 at 12:16 PM, polishgenius said:

be honest I think this sort of comment trivialises what being part of a group facing cultural hostility is actually like. You might get accused of pushing woke critical communist gender ideology. For trans people it's about a lot more than that. 

I didn’t mean to do so.

 

[A True Kaniggit]

9 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

No, god is a horse. True story.

God is dog spelled backwards.

[Raja]

So weird.