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The Mummer's Dragon candidates.


Sandy Clegg

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20 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I am being completely serious.  That is the name of it, Truth.  Hey, before Fire & Blood came out we were desperate.

ok...so, according to this theory, why would Daenerys need some Valyrian steel sword so badly? 

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Well, as some of us see it, the swords are a big deal.  As one of the main heroes, Dany, or more likely Jorah or Barristan, needs it to represent her against the Others in the Battle for Dawn.  Happily, F&B clued us in that Truth may be much closer to home than Asshai.  

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The other thing, which I find more interesting, is the description ‘mummer’s dragon’ itself. If one thinks of Varys as a/the mummer, it’s possible to read it as ‘Varys’s dragon’.

In thinking about this mystery, it may be important to remember that it started with an image, not with those two specific words. Daenerys had a vision.

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A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd (ACOK 48)

Later, she used the phrase "mummers dragon" to describe what she saw. "The map is not the territory."

The image itself contains details that may suggest other interpretations. The dragon is supported, literally, by a group of people. This could be symbolic of someone, such as Young Griff, who is being "supported" in a more figurative way by a group of people.

Also, the dragon is being cheered by a crowd. The vision could symbolize Dany's joyous and triumphant arrival in Kings Landing ... or Young Griff's.. or Jon Snow's ...

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49 minutes ago, James West said:

The Mummer's dragon is the second lie.  Aegon Blackfyre. The liars are pretenders to Azor Ahai, Targaryen, and Dragon.  Stannis is not Azor Ahai.  Aegon is a Blackfyre.  And Jon Snow is not a Dragon.  

Identifying someone with AA-reborn cannot be a lie, unless the person saying it knows otherwise.

Anyone who indulges in the evil practice of human sacrifice is AA-reborn.  Many persons will be AA-reborn.  But in the end, perhaps only one will be worth celebrating.

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The real issue here is that fans have had.....2+ decades to decipher all of this.  We've long-since arrived at the correct conclusion.

John Snow is the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.

Varys is the mummer.  Faegon is the mummer's dragon.

 

 

There's just a massive amount of text, pretext, foreshadowing, etc, leading readers towards that conclusion.  And it is the correct conclusion.  If GRRM hadn't stretched this franchise 3 decades long.....the hardcore fans would only have figured it out right before he confirmed it.  Instead, we figured it out well in advance of him publishing.  Now we're forced to endure edge-lord idiocy.

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7 hours ago, Ring3r said:

If GRRM hadn't stretched this franchise 3 decades long.....the hardcore fans would only have figured it out right before he confirmed it.  Instead, we figured it out well in advance of him publishing. 

George is apparently already aware that fans a while ago had manage to somewhat correctly predict the outcome of the books. But he's also a gardener writer who changes things and goes down various paths as he writes. This begs the question:  does he stick to the more 'obvious' conclusions to the mysteries he sets up? Possibly. Even probably. But maybe he decides to mix things up from time to time and go in different directions. These books are taking a long time to write - who knows what knots and twists he's decided to pursue? 

Anyway, if we can use some lateral thinking and arrive at alternate readings of the text, maybe we start to see some of the alternate paths in George's garden. Until the next book comes out, they're all just fun brain exercise right?

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2 hours ago, Sandy Clegg said:

George is apparently already aware that fans a while ago had manage to somewhat correctly predict the outcome of the books. But he's also a gardener writer who changes things and goes down various paths as he writes. This begs the question:  does he stick to the more 'obvious' conclusions to the mysteries he sets up? Possibly. Even probably. But maybe he decides to mix things up from time to time and go in different directions. These books are taking a long time to write - who knows what knots and twists he's decided to pursue? 

Anyway, if we can use some lateral thinking and arrive at alternate readings of the text, maybe we start to see some of the alternate paths in George's garden. Until the next book comes out, they're all just fun brain exercise right?

So would George subvert expectations to trick the readers?

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12 hours ago, James West said:

The Mummer's dragon is the second lie.  Aegon Blackfyre. The liars are pretenders to Azor Ahai, Targaryen, and Dragon.  Stannis is not Azor Ahai.  Aegon is a Blackfyre.  And Jon Snow is not a Dragon.  

Collectively, the three men are False Dragons. There is only one true Dragon, Daenerys. The men are, intentionally or not, trying to steal her identity. She is the only one who meets the three criteria of being Azor Ahai, the Targaryen heir, and the Dragon.  

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2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So would George subvert expectations to trick the readers?

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. I think George would want to keep readers on their toes at least. We can't just pretend that he is unaware of his readership's ability to solve his mysteries any more. He has addressed this topic in interviews, this quandary of whether or not to 'respond' to the readership's theories and I seem to recall he said that would be unfair, or unsporting, to those who had already figured things out. So he splits the difference - keeping the broad strokes of the ending the same, but deviating in some things along he journey to get there. 

Yes, it must be frustrating for him to have this army of fans dissecting his work and correctly predicting things in future books. On the other hand, he clearly does love to put clues and symbolism in his books precisely for that purpose - to be pondered, analysed, etc. So he's kind of in a unique dilemma among writers. He's in the middle of an ongoing series, with mysteries to be solved, but he can't make them too easy. But they also have to be resolved in a way that fans don't feel ultimately cheated. And this is why the books are taking so long to write, I think. He's threading a very tricky needle.

EDIT: You can find it on YouTube: 

He mentions that back in 1998 some fans had put together clues in ACOK that spelled out revelations in book six (although six may have been a random number for the sake of this anecdote). But he is not one to change the course of the plot just because some fans put two and two together. This was back on an Aussie forum over 20 years ago, though, so no point trying to seek them out as I believe it's long-since defunct!

 

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On 2/13/2023 at 1:38 AM, Ring3r said:

The real issue here is that fans have had.....2+ decades to decipher all of this.  We've long-since arrived at the correct conclusion.

Just because it's been debated does not mean the conclusion is correct.  Keep in mind, not everyone came to the same conclusion.  I don't think Jon is the son of a Targaryen. 

On 2/13/2023 at 1:38 AM, Ring3r said:

John Snow is the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.

Even if he is the son of Rhaegar, he is still a bastard.  Rhaegar was already married.  With children of his own. 

On 2/13/2023 at 1:38 AM, Ring3r said:

Varys is the mummer.  Faegon is the mummer's dragon.

 

 

There's just a massive amount of text, pretext, foreshadowing, etc, leading readers towards that conclusion.  And it is the correct conclusion.  If GRRM hadn't stretched this franchise 3 decades long.....the hardcore fans would only have figured it out right before he confirmed it.  Instead, we figured it out well in advance of him publishing.  Now we're forced to endure edge-lord idiocy.

 

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The specific mummer's dragon is Aegon.  The other fakes are "cloth dragons" propped up on poles in their own way.  They are puppets.  Not the real deal.  A prop in other words.  Mellissandre was propping up Stannis.  She will do the same and prop Jon after Stannis dies.  Varys and Mellissandre are actors and con artists. 

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