Can we just talk about Balon Greyjoy for a minute

[sifth]

2 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

What's the difference? Only Starks are obsessed with always leading from the front

I don't recall saying he had to lead from the front, I said did he partake in any battle at all. The answer is "No". Though he's fine with most of his family members fighting and dying for him. What a true and brave hero. Also literally every other king in the WotfK's partook in battle, not just the North.

Edited February 10 by sifth

[astarkchoice]

2 minutes ago, sifth said:

No, I'm asking about both and in both Balon cowardly choose to sit on the sidelines, while his family fought HIS battles, risked THEIR lives and in many cases died or were seriously injured.

Balon "I don't fight my own battles" Greyjoy, should honestly be the mans name.

Actualy a good commander stays the fuck away from the frontlines.

We dont know if he planned to or not for the 2nd but for the 1st vic had the iron fleet  euron led the lannisport suprise , his son attacked seaguard and there was still roughly  300-400, other boats to coordinate before vic lost at fair isle and they were on the backfoot

[sifth]

7 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Actualy a good commander stays the fuck away from the frontlines.

We dont know if he planned to or not for the 2nd but for the 1st vic had the iron fleet  euron led the lannisport suprise , his son attacked seaguard and there was still roughly  300-400, other boats to coordinate before vic lost at fair isle and they were on the backfoot

Nice, try on deflecting again. In Westeros, all the great commanders led their men into battle. This is especially true for kings.

Fact, we know literally every member of the Greyjoy family took part in the first rebellion, expect for Balon, his wife, Theon and Asha; the latter two being too young to fight. In the second rebellion Theon and Asha and literally every other member of his family fought, aside from Balon and his sickly wife. So yea, I call it as I see it, the man is craven.

Prove me wrong though, name me a battle he partook in.

Edited February 10 by sifth

[Back in Black-Snow]

44 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

"Ironborn kids are just as bright and just as talented as civilized kids."

Exactly! Never underestimate a starving kid faced with an opportunity. And chicks that look good on top of it? Shoot.

Edited February 10 by Back in Black-Snow
to add and correct

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

8 minutes ago, sifth said:

Prove me wrong though, name me a battle he partook in.

Umm...the one that got his old man killed? Still stupid.

Edited February 10 by The Grey Wolf Strikes Back

[astarkchoice]

9 minutes ago, sifth said:

Nice, try on deflecting again. In Westeros, all the great commanders led their men into battle.

So do the shitty ones

On land some do but  for every young  robert theres a calm  ned and we are told as a young man and reaver few matched him.

By the same token robert was a coward as he sat back and let stannis win the only  important  battle at fair isle while he sat on land drinking and only came along once there elite were scattered

Tywin also clearly as tyrion always says holds back and leads the reserve.

The greyjoy rebellions vic had the iron fleet , someone had to have overall command though ..to  run the 400.or so other non iron fleet  ships into independent groups etc 

Edited February 10 by astarkchoice

[Hugorfonics]

11 minutes ago, sifth said:

I don't recall saying he had to lead from the front, I said did he partake in any battle at all. The answer is "No". Though he's fine with most of his family members fighting and dying for him. What a true and brave hero. Also literally every other king in the WotfK's partook in battle, not just the North.

Renly didn't fight. If he did he would have fought like Stannis (or Tywin) which is in the reserve, attempting to dictate orders to Gregor like knights crossing your fingers they listen to you. I guess Joff fought for like 6 minutes in BW? Lol

Idk what to tell you, maybe we don't know the full scope of the war, or maybe Balon thought it efficient to lead in the real reserve as the scope he was fighting was an entire country and to not get bogged down in a specific battle.

But what I can tell you is he wasn't a punk

Quote

Aeron had been the last and least of the four krakens, Balon the eldest and boldest, a fierce and fearless boy who lived only to restore the ironborn to their ancient glory. At ten he scaled the Flint Cliffs to the Blind Lord's haunted tower. At thirteen he could run a longship's oars and dance the finger dance as well as any man in the isles. At fifteen he had sailed with Dagmer Cleftjaw to the Stepstones and spent a summer reaving. He slew his first man there and took his first two salt wives. At seventeen Balon captained his own ship. He was all that an elder brother ought to be, though he had never shown Aeron aught but scorn.

 

[Back in Black-Snow]

*Edited

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

34 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

They won too...held the lands for.generations

 

Yes some.will be others wont, the bulk will live their lives as ever they have in shitty medieval.serfdom

They can build siege weapons remember cleftjaw built some to scare thorrens square plus most of the castles will have almost no guard force...using longboats the ironborn can concentrate overwhelming force on them one  or two at a time too.

 

Rihght  they  dont need them but itl be hard without them

And no bear.island wasnt hit...yet ! invasion was abandoned due to rope bridge accident remember

They had stopped holding them for at least a millenia before the Targaryens arrived to Westeros. 

And the people would have clearly cared ans sided with the Starks and their fellow northmen over the squids that raid and try to enslave them.

And Dagmer only built them because of Theon's initiative, which won't be the case for most of the Ironborn under Victarion's command.

Balon had no plan for the rest of the North, his entire plan was to take MC and DW, raid the Stony Shore and then hope that the North would fall after, nothing more or less. No plan for Torrhen's Square, Winterfell, Barrowton, Bear Island or anywhere else. 

The majority of the IB would have rotten in MC while Ser Rodrik would have the time to evaluate the situation, progressively but surely assembling the North forces and then attack or besiege the castles held by the Ironborn and take them back, with him possibly ordering the Dustin and Ryswells to start burning the ships to cut the IB from the sea and starve them out.

It's really because of Theon and Ramsay that Balon's retarded invasion wasn't repelled.

 

[SeanF]

They say that when a Greyjoy is born, the Gods toss a coin.  On one side is written moron, and on the other, rapist.

Sometimes, you get both.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

13 minutes ago, SeanF said:

They say that when a Greyjoy is born, the Gods toss a coin.  On one side is written moron, and on the other, rapist.

Sometimes, you get both.

Most of the time you get both. Most Greyjoys are certainely rapists, including Balon and most of his brothers, perhaps even Aeron and Urrigon before his death.

Edited February 10 by Terrorthatflapsinthenight9

[Back in Black-Snow]

20 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Most of the time you get both.

They should have put 90% of their chips on Winterfell. Come in with a feint, cause Ramsey to do what he did, then sweep up the remaining Bolton forces in the surrounding region. Regroup while pillaging the surrounding area. Expand. Regroup and pillage. Wait for word from the fleet and then put everything you got, except for a few groups, against White Harbor.

Very risky, but if you really want to escape those forsaken islands, do it.

*Sorry, didn't mean to quote you or anyone else.

Edited February 10 by Back in Black-Snow

[astarkchoice]

29 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

They had stopped holding them for at least a millenia before the Targaryens arrived to Westeros. 

And the people would have clearly cared ans sided with the Starks and their fellow northmen over the squids that raid and try to enslave them.

And Dagmer only built them because of Theon's initiative, which won't be the case for most of the Ironborn under Victarion's command.

Balon had no plan for the rest of the North, his entire plan was to take MC and DW, raid the Stony Shore and then hope that the North would fall after, nothing more or less. No plan for Torrhen's Square, Winterfell, Barrowton, Bear Island or anywhere else. 

The majority of the IB would have rotten in MC while Ser Rodrik would have the time to evaluate the situation, progressively but surely assembling the North forces and then attack or besiege the castles held by the Ironborn and take them back, with him possibly ordering the Dustin and Ryswells to start burning the ships to cut the IB from the sea and starve them out.

It's really because of Theon and Ramsay that Balon's retarded invasion wasn't repelled.

 

They held them before they can do it again 

Whos they exactly? The northmen arent some group collective. The karsarks have marched home with serious losses ,most houses  have old men or ladies in charge, ramsay is more likely to side with the invaders if they grant him the hornwood lands. Lord manderly is (admitedly incorrectly) percieved as a coward but is 100s of miles away on the other side of the north, the ryswells and dustins are in the firing line beside the rivers and sea...2 houses (one headed by a woman )vs 20k or so, the 2  flint houses  one the far exposed west coast  are related to east coast ones so wont attack once hostages are held  and of course the mormonts are toast!

 

Right so they CAN build.siege engines ..ok

 

We dont exactly  know the rest of balons plans, grmm sorta forgets about him and then he dies but we do hear him talk about talking holdfasts bar winterfell ' they will all.fall.one by one , winterfell.may defy us for a year or so but what of it' this is correct with overwhelming numbers brought by boat they can take most castles.west coast one by one easily. 

The invasion proper hadnt begun dude and theonwas.of course being massively underused..IF  somehow all  whats left of the norths lords gather to make resistance and IF they can gather up whats left of the norths military (many green boys and old.men among them) and march slowly across those vast distances to somehow besige those  close coastal castles in mid winter AND begin to win somhow..then theon will  have a chance to shine.

[Alester Florent]

Victarion got all the brains in that family.

Euron is adopted.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

5 minutes ago, Adelstein said:

Victarion got all the brains in that family.

Euron is adopted.

Euron is actually Quellon's true son, he's the only one who has inherited of his father's intelligence, just in his own crazy way, while his brothers have been adopted. 

[sifth]

1 hour ago, astarkchoice said:

So do the shitty ones

On land some do but  for every young  robert theres a calm  ned and we are told as a young man and reaver few matched him.

By the same token Robert was a coward as he sat back and let stannis win the only  important  battle at fair isle while he sat on land drinking and only came along once there elite were scattered

Tywin also clearly as tyrion always says holds back and leads the reserve.

The greyjoy rebellions vic had the iron fleet , someone had to have overall command though ..to  run the 400.or so other non iron fleet  ships into independent groups etc 

So in other words you can't refute me. The man was a coward plane and simple.

[sifth]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Renly didn't fight. If he did he would have fought like Stannis (or Tywin) which is in the reserve, attempting to dictate orders to Gregor like knights crossing your fingers they listen to you. I guess Joff fought for like 6 minutes in BW? Lol

Idk what to tell you, maybe we don't know the full scope of the war, or maybe Balon thought it efficient to lead in the real reserve as the scope he was fighting was an entire country and to not get bogged down in a specific battle.

But what I can tell you is he wasn't a punk

 

Non of the stuff you mentioned has any battles he won listed in it, let alone fought in. Nice try though, nice try.

Renly was killed off, before any of his battles started. He was however preparing to lead his men into battle, with Stannis, when he was murdered. He didn't sit at Highgarden, while his general led his army for him, the way Balon did things.

Edited February 10 by sifth

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Yeah the more I think about it, the more I am sure that Euron is truly Quellon's son while Balon is his father's complete opposite in every area (physique, personality, intelligence and willingness to lead their men into battle). 

[astarkchoice]

14 minutes ago, sifth said:

So in other words you can't refute me. The man was a coward plane and simple.

Settle man hes a fictional character he never actualy hurt anyone bar feelings! 

Hes apparently a coward whos  somehow also  described and fierce and fearless in his youth killing since 15 and climbing the flint cliffaces at ten etc etc .. but is a coward as wasnt  on the  frontlines ..ok

[Vaegon the dragonless]

They're is one thing that Balon did that was intelligent, creating the Iron Fleet, after that it is just stupid after stupid with a bit of luck. His first rebellion got him nothing but the death of is elder sons and is youngest and now heir out of is home. The second rebellion was poorly planned and he ignored is greatest asset, Theon, he basically gives Theon, who knows and has grew in the North nothing to do, will Asha takes a single Castle and Victarion takes a key position. The problem with that key position is that the crannogmen will bleed them dry. Also a army of Northmen was being assembled and would have easly destroyed Asha before attacking Victarion from the North. The only reason that did not happen is because Theon, one of the three not completely idiotic Greyjoy's (he is far from intelligent but he is not a moron), decides one is own accord to come up with a plan to take the heart of the North. Theon succeds but then drops the ball and does not leaving with plunder and hostage like he should, but he at least forces Rodrick to siege Winterfell, the fact that by pure chance Ramsay was a prisonner, that Theon believed him and send him to the Dreadfort is absolutly and completely lucked based. And it is Ramsay's that beats the second northen army by trickery. If Ramsay dies or if Theon does not believe him, Rodrick takes back Winterfell, Bran and Rickon come out of hiding and the North is no longuer on immediate danger, depending on the timeline Robbs does not have is grieved induced fuck up (literally) and keeps the Frey's with him, and Catelyn does not let Jaime go free so the Karstark are still here. Robb can still go back North to clean up or leave it to Roderick with the second northen army. So Balon's whole plan was doomed and it was only saved by the iniative of Theon, who was shunned and ignored by Balon, absolutly not part of is plan. People forget that Rodericks army was only beaten by Ramsay trickery and that it was not fully assembled, if Ramsay is not there then that second army contains the ironborn until the war in the South is decided, and once the war in the south is decided, who ever won is going to come for Balon because he is alone. Balon's plan was just bad and it took a massive amount of luck to old long enought for him to kick the bucket.