sifth Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 4 hours ago, Ran said: We know he's able to talk to girls. That makes him very different from Quentyn. Well one girl anyway, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 17 hours ago, Ran said: What @Gilbert Green says. You can't take this little knot of people -- basically people in the sphere of Oberyn Martell (his daughters, his niece and her hanger ons) -- and project them to be all of Dorne. My impression was that the smallfolk at Sunspear wanted revenge for Oberyn just as much as the Sand Snakes did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: My impression was that the smallfolk at Sunspear wanted revenge for Oberyn just as much as the Sand Snakes did. That's true enough, but this speaks more to a nascent proto-nationalism in Dorne than it does to whether Dornishmen the stereotype of Dornishmen as cruel, liscentious, etc. are accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: My impression was that the smallfolk at Sunspear wanted revenge for Oberyn just as much as the Sand Snakes did. I thought it was just they didn't like seeing his daughters arrested. Either way, it's a percentage. Yes, some are rioting in Sunspear (riots in KL practically every month for context) but that doesn't mean all are, or that it's a dornish thing to do On 2/11/2023 at 4:16 AM, Craving Peaches said: If we take the stereotype of the North as 'evil tree worshipping savages', we see that's not true. They're not evil, but most certainly are tree worshipping savages. On 2/11/2023 at 4:16 AM, Craving Peaches said: But if we take the Dornish stereotypes of 'hot-blooded lustful people who kill others in cowardly ways', well...at least 5 characters match this.. It's asoiaf, they all match that. Aerys, Cersei, Catelyn, Dany, Tyrion, Euron, etc I would even include Coldhands, if he was hot blooded that is . Quote "Dornishmen lie, don't they?" "They're famous for it." The bowman grinned. "Of course, they say the same of us marchers, so there you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 24 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: I thought it was just they didn't like seeing his daughters arrested. Doran saw the riled up crowd as he made his way to the palace, that was before he had the Sand Snakes arrested. But yes, I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 21 hours ago, Ran said: Tristan and Quentyn look each to be pretty different from one another, and they from their sister. Doran is wildly different than Oberyn. I think most of Trystane’s differences come from actually looking like Ger this time. Otherwise they both seem decent, earnest, polite, loyal, etc. Agreed the rest are very different types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 20 minutes ago, James Arryn said: I think most of Trystane’s differences come from actually looking like Ger this time. Otherwise they both seem decent, earnest, polite, loyal, etc. Agreed the rest are very different types. Just now realized my phone changed "Trystane" to "Tristan". Heh. But yeah, there's a lot more variety than people give credit, because of course the more extreme minority are so memorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 22 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: I'm beginning to understand why GRRM uses DOS. The autocorrect on modern systems is absolutely brutal. Just imagine what it would make of the Meereen characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 13 minutes ago, Adelstein said: Just imagine what it would make of the Meereen characters. I've just tried it, just for fun, and most of them actually remained unchanged on my system. I guess that names from Essos are so fantasy-like that the autocorrect struggles to come up with a "normal" replacement. It's worse with Westerosi names. The most hilarious one for me was when Arianne changed to Rihanna, and I didn't notice it for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Green Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 8 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: My impression was that the smallfolk at Sunspear wanted revenge for Oberyn just as much as the Sand Snakes did. Some do, I'm sure. But what the smallfolk really think, and what their leaders say they do think or ought to think, are not always the same thing. And we've seen hints of this before, in ASOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 On 2/11/2023 at 12:16 PM, Craving Peaches said: People are always quick to insult the Dornish by calling them snakes, poisoners, lustful, treacherous etc. When I first read this I assumed it was just a negative stereotypical view of them that people had. However so far a large portion of the Dornish characters we've seen actually live up to these insults. Oberyn, Arianne, the Sand Snakes, are like walking Dornish stereotypes. It's a bit weird. It's like the bigoted insults are actually true...and it's not helped by some of the stunts they pulled historically, like mutilating prisoners, murdering people under a peace banner, etc. I mean the Sand Snakes actually want to kill a young boy to avenge their father's non-existent murder...We need more Dornish characters like Ellaria. I know some people say that there is a grain of truth in stereotypes, but some of these characters really are like walking caricatures based on all the negative traits people ascribe to the Dornish. If we take the stereotype of the North as 'evil tree worshipping savages', we see that's not true. But if we take the Dornish stereotypes of 'hot-blooded lustful people who kill others in cowardly ways', well...at least 5 characters match this... Funny thing about stereotypes is they have an actual, valid, basis, they don't appear out of thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Speaking as a Dornish person, I can say that they come off real enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: Funny thing about stereotypes is they have an actual, valid, basis, they don't appear out of thin air. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Green Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 2 hours ago, James Arryn said: What? Yes. For instance, the French really are fond of wine and cheese. And the Dothraki really are fond of horses and rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James West Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 The Iron Born fall also fall into this broad categorization. Mostly true even though Asha and the Reader do not fit the mold. There are good Iron Born. Just like there are a few good people in the North even among the savages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 20 hours ago, Gilbert Green said: Yes. For instance, the French really are fond of wine and cheese. And the Dothraki really are fond of horses and rape. Because the Dothraki don't drink wine and there are definitely no stereotypes about French and womanizing? On 2/12/2023 at 6:07 PM, Corvo the Crow said: Funny thing about stereotypes is they have an actual, valid, basis, they don't appear out of thin air. The actual valid basis of racism, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Green Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 48 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Because the Dothraki don't drink wine and there are definitely no stereotypes about French and womanizing? The actual valid basis of racism, yes. You will never attain an appreciation of a foreign culture, if you shout the R word at every hint of a general statement. What's the alternative? To pretend all cultures are the same? And is a complex and nuanced understanding going to pop instantly into your head, without going through a more-general understanding, at least as an intermediate phase of learning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 26 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said: You will never attain an appreciation of a foreign culture, if you shout the R word at every hint of a general statement I have great appreciation for French and Dothraki culture, despite the stereotypes of cheese wine rape and horses. 28 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said: What's the alternative? To pretend all cultures are the same? They're not the same. For instance Dothraki sometimes stay in a city where you can't shed blood and look to the stars to decide where to graze. Weird behavior if you ask me, but nothing about that is negative stereotypes. (Like a fondness for rape and horses, where some do but some don't like the cart people or Danys bloodriders who never raped anyone. Besides Westerosi don't rape and aren't also obsessed with horses?) 34 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said: And is a complex and nuanced understanding going to pop instantly into your head, without going through a more-general understanding, at least as an intermediate phase of learning? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 On 2/12/2023 at 8:35 PM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: I've just tried it, just for fun, and most of them actually remained unchanged on my system. I guess that names from Essos are so fantasy-like that the autocorrect struggles to come up with a "normal" replacement. It's worse with Westerosi names. The most hilarious one for me was when Arianne changed to Rihanna, and I didn't notice it for a while. Is dorne a hopeless place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 1 minute ago, astarkchoice said: Is dorne a hopeless place? I guess that's why Darkstar is a Rude Boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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